I think you'll see Dale Garrett race the big brown truck before you'll see Porsche race the Cayenne. It's a 5000 lb grocery-getter with a trailer hitch, it's no race car. Sure, some of it's parts may find there way into racing, but on what, someone elses hybrid creation. Who would it's competition be - Hyundia, Mitsubishi? I can see it now, and the Cayenne crosses the finish line in front of ... Hyundia - Oh Boy. I can remember when Porsche had a rivalry with Ferrari, now there's a business model to emulate - you have to get on a waiting list to get one and there vintage racer's are the some of the most valuable cars in existence.

"Oh, and BTW, only a poseur would care how he appears in a car"

I don't care how I appear in a car, but there are certain cars I wouldn't want to be seen in. You're right, only a poseur would care how they personally look in a car, but there are plenty of people that would be embarrassed to be seen in certain cars, and plenty of cars that most people would be embarrassed to be seen in.

Would you want to be seen driving a Pontiac Aztek? No? how about a riced-out Civic? Not that either? Hm. Well that's weird because I thought I remembered you saying that only a poseur cares about how they're seen in a car... oh wait, that's not what you wrote? Oh, well me either. Try actually READING someone's post some time instead of just glancing at the words .

I feel sorry for those people. I really do. To be that insecure. Of course using mob mentality to justify something..... "Most" people do not buy Porsches. Would that make them more correct that those who do?

Actually, I was considering an '02 Aztek (in bright yellow, with the optional 5 spoke 17" wheels) as a multipurpose family rig. Couldn't get the price where I wanted it, and ended up getting a PT Cruiser (touring edition, 5 speed) that I actually autocrossed successfully in H Stock this year. I've driven customer cars that were worse than a typical riced out Civic, and don't mind most of the custom style that those cars employ (I remember the days of building cars like a '50 Merc with '53 Buick side trim, '55 DeSoto grille, '57 Lincoln headlights, and '53 Kaiser taillights).

Your comment came off as a typical snobby poseur one. And you were using as justification for predjudicial statements against a car you haven't driven (and few actually have), as though forming an opinion on theory was as valid as actual experience. And as though forming that opinion based on early theory was more important that examining it in light of new information and actual experience. C'mon, you want to be more open minded than tabs, don't you... :D

I mean, remember how angry most newer Porsche owners were over tabs claiming that '73 was the last True Porsche, and how narrowminded his attitude is. But in many respects, you've merely moved his arbitrary line to your own arbitrary cutoff point. And that's just sad.

Remember, The first car to carry Porsche's name was an electric FWD model...

Besides, this is what they are really for:

http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/23560.jpg

Not quite true chris. The car you're referring to is the 1900 Lohner-Porsche which officially was a Lohner model. As Ferdinand Porsche Sr. desgined the car, the car inofficially is called LOHNER-PORSCHE.

The first car to bear the name Porsche is the 1948 356 Nr. 1 buit in Gmuend, Austria.

PT

Well, I don't think that Cayenne drivers (when they are out) will be idiots. I simply don't like the fact that Porsche is building an SUV. If someone put a Luger to my head and said, "you absolutely must drive an SUV for the rest of your life, now what will it be," I would say "Cayenne Turbo" without hesitation.

And I stick by my comment about the Aztek. That thing is friggin hideous, and I wouldn't be caught dead driving one. Or a Storm, or a riced Civic.

Take a Valium, make yourself a bubble bath, and chill out. :p

But it carried his name, did it not? yes, it did. Not by the Porsche company, but still....

That's all well and good, but the average sports car, as a car, has some deficiencies which require you to have another vehicle to do many of the things you require a daily driver vehicle to do. Like carry more than a comfortable front passenger and a really scrunched up rear passenger. Having Porsche build both your fun car and the practical, all terrain, people and stuff carrier that it shares the driveway/garage with makes sense for those that have the money to do it.

I can see everyone's gripe if Porsche was replacing the 911 series with this, but that isn't the case. This is a Porsche that can do a lot of things that the regular 911 cannot do, while retaining a lot of what it can do. Being sold to those people of means that still cannot justify owning only a sports car, but want the same levels of quality engineering and ability.

AN excerpt from an interview with Butzi Porsche, the designer of the 911 AND Lead Design Consultant the Cayenne:

"Q: Let's look at Porsche again. Some say design reflects our emotional state and that the proliferation of SUVs, which are based on old military vehicles, says we no longer are fancy-free but are afraid and seeking vehicles that surround us in safety, like a tank. Is that what the Cayenne is all about?

A: Well, off-road cars are strong cars, but the trend to SUVs is based more on the feeling of freedom [than fear], on the feeling that our urban society is fed up with urban surroundings. People want the feeling that we can go across country whenever we want.

Q: Is that what you were trying to say with the Cayenne?

A: It was important to focus on the aspect that it is a real off-road car, able to go where the Land Rover Defender could go, and on the other hand is a luxury limousine you could take to the opera. And, of course, it still is a Porsche."

The reason that I, and many others, hate the idea of a Porsche SUV is because it will dilute the image (and I mean image as in "mental image," not in the "status symbol" way that the word image has come to mean since the 1980s) of the Porsche company. When one says Porsche, one automatically thinks of a turn-hugging coupe. If the Cayenne is successful, people won't think of Porsches as fun little cars anymore, but rather as huge, lumbering, gas-guzzling tanks. This scares me. :( Mommy!

If people lack the brain capacity to incorporate the Cayenne into the Porsche image, then their opinion is meaningless, just like the large number of people who already equate the brand with gold chain wearing, mid-life crisis having, older men with penis issues. the Porcupine joke didn't come from nothing. Did that image keep you from liking the marque? Me either.

Not considering why Porsche decided to build it, it is a VERY nice vehicle.

I was at the PCA-Germany region holiday dinner this weekend in Heidelberg and a fellow from Porsche brought a Turbo model for all to see. This thing is all Porsche. The interior, especially, was first rate. The six pot calipers up front were massive... etc., etc.

I'm not sure I'd even call this thing an SUV. It's more like a wagon on steriods like the X5 or Volvo X-Country, just with Porsche's shot of sports car performance. Whether buyers take it off road or not (I have yet to take my 4x4 Durango off road), it's a 4 seat Porsche and offers that utility that their sports cars do not. I'd love to have the utility of a vehicle big enough to haul passengers and some cargo with the performance of a Porsche.

If these things hold their value like 928s, maybe I'll have one sooner than I think...

hmmm
 

I'm not sure if anyone will agree with me however....

Doesn't it seem as if Porsche will be putting the company in the same losing position they were in, in the late 80's early 90's. It seems like this just another nameplate for their cliental to decide on. It seems to me that people that can afford a new Porsche would be going for a racecar not an SUV. If they are going for a compromise between an SUV and a racecar aren't they competing with there own line? I'm not sure about some of this - it just doesn't seem like a wise business decision with the limited numbers of vehicles they as a company produces every year.

Thank god they don't produce like Ford, as many nameplates as possible and as cheap a build as possible. I think that Porsche’s business plan should be limited and direct for a certain type of customer. I also feel that boxster and the 911 hit the mark.

Those are my thoughts - as all over the place as they are,
Anthony

P.S. I have had bad luck with ford...

agabriel, that is the first thing that entered my mind when i heard about the Cayenne... the economy is on the decline, and Porsche is taking a huge risk that could make or break the company. I don't think this will happen, however, for although the Cayenne got a mixed initial reception from the automotive press, they are already selling like hot-cakes. Perhaps they won't sell as well as the 944 or Boxster, but they don't have to due to their price-per-unit.

Also, what caused Porsche's near-collapse in 89-93 was their stubborn unwillingness to change. The 944 and 928 had been around for a LONG time, with no real replacement in sight. Porsche put a lot of money into developing the 968, but it was a relative failure. Sure, it is an amazing car, possibly the best front-engined car ever made by the company, but it was the wrong car at the wrong time. It was underpowered for the price and died a slow death. Even more prolonged was extinction of the dinosaur 928 - the cars just weren't selling but Porsche just kept making em.

Thank God for the Boxster Concept and the 993 - those two cars alone saved Porsche. Since the Boxster debuted in 96 (it was 96, right?), Porsche's profits have skyrocketed.

Sure, the Cayenne is a risk, but Porsche has the financial backing to bounce back in the unlikely situation that it fails. And I doubt it will fail... the road tests so far have been ecstatic. The last line of EVO's test: "Although it may pain the enthusiast in all of us to admit it, it appears that Porsche has pulled it off."

Re: hmmm
 

Did you bother to read my post just above yours? In case you missed it, here are the salient points:

The average new Porsche buyer does not have the Porsche as their only car. They tend to also have something that carries more people as a second vehicle. Why should Porsche let that vehicle be a non-Porsche? These people have the money to have more than one high end vehicle. They are not going to say "which should I buy? A sports car OR an SUV?"

They are going to tend to buy the sports car, then go to the dealership that has the SUV they want and buy that, too.

With the Cayanne, the 911 sales aren't cannibalized. Instead of there being a 911 and an Escalade or Range Rover in the driveway, there will be a 911 and a Cayanne. And in teh odd chance that there is a buyer out there who DOES only want one vehicle, but that vehicle can't be as impractical as a sports car, there is a choice in that showroom that WILL fit their needs.

How again is this a losing proposition for Porsche?

" Most, like the Suburu Outback, wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell on dirt roads, let alone off-road..."

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT DRIVEN A SUBARU OFF ROAD- I HAVE - MY 2001 OUTBACK VDC RIPS DIRT, SNOW, GRAVEL - WHATEVER YOU THROW IT'S WAY. It's not like it has the most radical approach angles - but it is extremely capable, even in high clearance areas.

BTW - I would love to drive the Cayenne. It's just a shame that this Porsche is bound to be purchased by many who do not even know where their turn signals are....:rolleyes:

If Cayenne = profit, then Porsche as a profitable company = more Porsches. Hopefully they find their buyers.

A quote from Autoextremist.com:

Georg Kacher, Automobile. Writing in the January issue, Kacher is one of the few in the media who actually tries to put the new Porsche Cayenne in perspective. He opens his review with the following comments: "Bears dance, birds talk, and seals play ball. So why shouldn't a sport-utility vehicle perform like a thoroughbred sporting car? Porsche set this lofty goal for its new Cayenne and, indeed, came close to meeting it, albeit at a price. And we're not just talking about its premium sticker price, either. There's also weight, component wear, and fuel consumption to consider. A top-spec Cayenne will suck its fuel tank dry after only 200 hard-charging miles, which may be fine for Saudi royalty, but it's unfortunate for the rest of us - not to mention the environment. Tire wear is compromised by curb weights that can exceed 5000 pounds. And although the Cayenne will out-handle, out-corner, and out-brake every other SUV on the planet, it never will be mistaken for its sports car brethren."

It's here and we're stuck with it. In ten years time I bet owners won't be able to give an old one away.

As an aside, Fiat in Italy is in deep trouble. One of the solutions put forward was to stick the Ferrari name on everything from delivery trucks to econo cars to try and increase market share. The idea was shelved but even Ferrari is not immune.

I think I would still prefer to spend the day with the bunny and have a good night of sleep than the opposite. I may be getting old. What kind of bunny should Porsche built; something like a lightweight Lotus Elise with some kind of high tech electric or hybrid motor.

:p

the ugly mother apparently drives like a dream. Good. At least it's a credit to Porsche in that respect.;)

Do we realy care if Porsche makes any profits ? Most of us wont buy new ones anyway. I dont even rely on Porsche to get an oil filter for my 914. When I will buy a new car, I will choose one that is realy ahead of its time, like a hybrid Honda or a Lotus Elise. The Pepper is probably very high-tech but the concept that you need a big truck with a big engine to be able to go anwhere you want is an outdated concept.