Porsche Needs to Rally the Cayenne

Rick Becker · 06:47 PM

Endurance racing. Paris-Dakar. The Baja 1000. Central America to Alaska. Can somebody please turn the Cayenne into a Rally car and win? If so, I believe all should be forgiven.

ChrisV · 11-12-2002, 10:32 AM

How many 928 race cars did Porsche make before launching that model range?

dougcl · 11-12-2002, 02:39 PM

Chris, I suppose you are trying to say that it is not necessary to develop a racing prototype before going into production, using the 928 as an example. Why use the 928? There's hardly a shortage of examples. Yours is a great point (if you have a penchant for the obvious), but was it supposed to relate somehow to the original post?

ChrisV · 11-13-2002, 10:03 AM

It was relating to the whole "Cayenne isn't a true Porsche because it isn't raced, and it needed to be raced/rallyed before it could be accepted" train of thought that goes on with so many Porsche enthusiasts. And was implied by the "all would be forgiven" comment.

The 928 was used as it was also unnaccepted by the Porsche "purists" when it first appeared, but really became one of Porsche's great road cars, even without a racing program.

Thus countering the assertion that Porsche "needs" to rallye the Cayenne. While it would be cool, it's far from necessary.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

I'll argue that the 928 was never really quite accepted by the Porsche enthusiast crowd. You almost never see them raced - I believe that there is a reason for that. They appear to me to be too luxury-based, and the engines too difficult to work on. The car itself is very, very heavy - only armed with a high HP engine to make up for the weight. There really isn't a strong following among 928 owners or collectors right now - I can't really figure out why. The 914 crowd has a much, much bigger following...

-Wayne

Rick Becker · 11-13-2002, 09:11 PM

Manufacturers should be able to demonstrate superior engineering by racing. Racing has always been an integral part of Porsche's design philosophy. For many, endurance racing is the true test of engineering excellence. Some Porsche owners are displeased that the factory transferred funding from the race program to design and build the Cayenne.

Yes, not all road cars are raced. Daimler-Benz, Lexus, Jaguar and others build quite a few of them. Regarding the 928, its design was partly in response to U.S. environmental and crash safety standards, at a time when the U.S. was considering a ban on mid- and rear-engine cars. (thank you Ralph Nader). A great 165mph roadcar, and Porsche didn't abandon it's racing program to build it.

Porsche has a great, but distant history in rally cars. Racing and winning rallys with the Cayenne would help restore Porsche's standing in racing. And demonstrate they were working on a racecar all the while. Hence, all could be forgiven.

ChrisV · 11-15-2002, 10:51 AM

Racing is a great way to improve the breed, true. But racing is also a great way to use up money. Some say, "well, it's advertising." But investing into a new product line that generates added revenue is just as valid.

And I'd argue about superior engineering, too. Building to race class rules often has little bearing on road car needs, and vice versa. Trucks, for example, have no need of a racing series to prove superior engineering for the job they do, and the race vehicles usually built from them have little in common with (and as little relevance to) the street vehicles that do real work, or merely are used as transportation.

In the market that the Cayenne is aiming for, racing has even less of a bearing. Again, while it would be cool to see one running the Paris Dakar (and you know it's going to happen, even if it isn't factory backed) it simply isn't necessary for it's intended role.

The Porsche enthusiast crowd is a poor judge of what is and what isn't a Porsche, judging from the postings even right here on this site. It ranges from nothing newer than the 356 is a "real" Porsche, to nothing newer than the early 911s, to nothing other than the rear engine Porsches, to everything but the Cayenne, to the few that say it's a true Porsche if it has the Porsche crest somewhere. Porsche enthusiasts draw the line right after whatever their favorite is, in general, and that varies all over the place. I've seen the 928s on the track, daily drivers that see weekend track time, and hitting over 300k miles on them. Porsche enthusiasts that can't call it a "real" Porsche are simply narrowminded and wrong.

Porsche has dominated racing, and created a few of the most incredible road going race cars yet in the past few years, along with their new supercar. I'd say that isn't dropping everything to build the Cayenne. I'd say that's merely adding a vehicle to the lineup that has Porsche engineering, but can be used in ways that sports cars can't. It isn't a replacement for the 911, but an addition to the line.

gforces944 · 11-15-2002, 11:07 AM

I know Porsche dropped its LeMans effort to develop the Cayenne. And Porsche has lately been keen at keeping secrets, the Carrera GT being proof.

I was upset when Porsche bowed out of LeMans after their last win in 1998 with the GT1, but I'm hoping it was because they needed to develop a new car as they say, which is the Carrera GT.

It would be a joyous moment in Porsche history if they came back in 2003 with a new race car, built around the Cayenne's engine and/or the Carrera GT's platform, and handed Audi their arse the first time back after four years' absence -- and especially after Audi's last three dominating wins.

hoping, praying, dreaming. We'll see what happens in France next year.

ChrisV · 11-18-2002, 12:53 PM

Porsche has won at Le Mans countless times. It isn't like they needed a win every year, or even be there every year, in order to prove thay are an excellent engineering company. Spending money on the bottom line: making street cars that they can sell, is a valid reason to stop at Le Mans for a bit. They already have the GT3 and its variations, along with racing series worldwide they are involved in.

I'd rather see them remain profitable in the market and still be here in a decade, rather than spend a ton of money on yet another Le Mans win.

Of course, I remember them spending a bunch of money on racing and almost going out of business a while back...

gforces944 · 11-24-2002, 09:58 AM

How long is a little bit? The one thing that I always admired about Porsche is their difference in attitude toward racing. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"

I like to think that Porsche sells cars so that they can go racing...not the other way around.

Don't you think the great Ferry Porsche is up there right now, saying, "ok, you've got two great cars now (Cayenne and Carrera GT), now let's see if they can win races..."