Great Post
 

Keep it going... Great Post

Sounds like MrZee, buys cars with open titles, then is mad because his flip did not make him enough money....sour grapes 🍇 .

He will not come forward he just barks...barks...barks..

The salesman may not money but the dealers do. I have buddy who has one for Jeep and Dodge. His Ferrari is on order.

Knowing the trade-in value of your car is nice, and can keep you from getting completely fleeced, but the margin between trade-in value and used retail is still huge. I would estimate dealers have a 25% margin on what they offer as trade-in value vice what they are asking for the same car in the secondary market. Take a car to Carmax and see what they offer you, compared to a comparable used car on their lot. Even the crap ones they send to auction, for probably $500-1000 margin.

A lease turn-in isn't a "trade-in". Dealers love buyers who roll from lease-to-lease. Probably even mores those are are "trading" a leased car before the term is up. I guess they could finance your remaining payments into the new car price, then work with the lessor on return -- which sounds like a windfall for the dealer, with the lessee paying out the nose to get rid of the lease.

Carvana and the like are built around trade-in profits and resale of 3-year lease returns, purchased in bulk from finance companies.

Wrong, Wollet. YOU are the type of scum who advertises all over the internet selling cars without your name on the title. I defy you to try it in MY jurisdiction. I'll have you locked up on a felony faster that you can flip a car to your next victim.

It's jerks like you who take advantage of unsuspecting people. I'm doing my job to protect them from you idiots.

If anyone wants to investigate Wollet, just Google his name and see all the WTB ads scattered across the internet in multiple forums - including here on PP. Then you'll see see he advertises as if he's in Florida, Indiana, Chicago, etc.

Yeah, folks, as I've said before - buyer beware.

Most least turn in cars are cars the dealership does not even buy from the finance company. I sent back 75 to 80 percent of the lease turn ins. In terms of brands other than yours whose cars you get dumped on you at their lease end, you really almost never get to buy those. If your organization buys them its only because they own that franchise too and you're sending that unit to that store for zero profit. Sure the junk you take in you get to flip for 500 to 1500 bucks big deal. On a $75000 CPO 911 you're fortunate to make 4 to 5 grand tops. Its a bell shaped curve so sure you'll hit a home run every once in a while but you'll end up buying a losers at the same rate.

At something like a Honda or Toyota store they do it on volume. They sell a couple hundred new and a couple hundred used cars a month so if they make a grand on each deal the numbers work. At a typical Porsche dealer if you sell 25 new Porsche and 7 CPO you'd better have a killer service and parts department, or another brand with you. Or better yet a really good used car lot of non Porsche products that you turn over a lot.

My assumptions are based on observation and conjecture, not actual experience in the car industry.

How often did you see lease returns buying new vs a new lease?

I'm curious how a Porsche dealer stays in business if they are not making much on new car sales, or trade-ins. It is a low volume marque, but I don't see many shutting down.

MrZee

Take your beef off this forum, PM me with your name because it’s pure slander, so we can deal with this beyond a forum. Your not very smart making treats and false accusations. I believe your a bitter man that did not make enough money on your flips....I have no idea who you are but your character shows by just saying stupid remarks, not very cool.

I don’t flip cars and I despise all those who do so illegally, not just you. If you weren’t so bold about your illegal activity, you wouldn’t have a target on your back.

My beef isn’t just with you, it’s with anyone circumventing the law. I’d bet good money that there isn’t a person on this, or any other forum, who would want to buy a vehicle from anyone who doesn’t have a title in his name.

don't need your help, homeboy. but, thanks.

listen, i don't know what you hope to accomplish coming on here out of the blue and acting like a complete prick, calling a member out, and offering exactly nothing to support you sour disposition.

take it up with your guy directly if you have a problem.

otherwise, please, find another forum to troll...

MrZee, please consider me a fan.

I'm curious how a Porsche dealer stays in business if they are not making much on new car sales, or trade-ins. It is a low volume marque, but I don't see many shutting down.

I wonder the same thing?? Is their service dept. the money maker??? I received a notice in the mail for a free inspection from Jaguar on my wife's X-type. The car was probably about six years old. We took it to them, drank some of their coffee, watched CNBC, and I admired the marble on the floors. Then the service manager comes to get us. We sit in his office and he rattles off half a dozen things that need repaired. He ends with, "Your total investment today would be $3,100) I asked him if he was selling me a stock or mutual fund, as I've personally never heard an over inflated repair bill be referred to as an investment. Over $2,100 was to r&r the oil pan gasket. I told him we didn't have a drop of oil on the garage floor, owning many air cooled Porsches, you tend to watch these things. He then told me it wasn't leaking yet, the outer edges of the gasket were slightly moist. So, is this their money maker??????

a well run car dealership will cover its entire operating expenses (both sales and service) with the profit from its service and parts department

No one has mentioned the dealer markups over MSRP.

Most of the GT3RSs were 50 -100k over MSRP and GT3s at 30-50 over MSRP. I have been told the 2019 speedster , with most dealers getting one will be 150 - 200K over MSRP ... how do these markups factor into a Pdealers profitability selling new cars?

My local dealer currently has a 2011 speedster asking 400K + for a 200ish MSRP, because its a rare color. Also has a couple of other " special" cars at the 400-500 ask range - well above MSRP. I know asking is different than selling and I certainly cannot afford any of these but I am amazed at their marble floors, big screen TV panels and what appear to be profitable business if the margins are so slim on new/ used car sales.

To those that have shared their insights and knowledge in this business, thank you.

My .02 on the original post of a flipper or individual not possessing title: Buy the seller as much as the car. Most of the cars I have seen posted by flippers are normal Pcars - their story is cloudy or the words vague in the description of the car. Pay a bit more and buy from a PCA member with solid ownership history.

Porsche Financial Services virtually always has some sort of pull ahead program in place which really is a good deal for the customer and helps keep them in a Porsche. So to answer your question, quite often the lease clients stay as lease clients and not switch to cash or finance. A lease is new car sale for the dealership too. Leased cars are sold and then owned by the finance company.

As someone mentioned if you can have fixed ops (parts and service) cover your expenses you're way ahead of the game.

A lot of the car business is about real estate too. The owner of the dealership also owns the real estate. The dealership pays rent to the owner of the property.

These days many dealers are also owned by multi franchised owners or huge holding companies who own many dealerships and can employ economies of scale.

I can tell you the three dealers I worked for in my 10 years Porsche didn't sell any cars over MSRP. Does it happen? Sure it does but look at the typical Porsche dealer who sells 25 new cars a month.... how many GT cars did they get in 2018? Maybe 4 or 5. Most of them probably went to clients who buy cars from them at NO markup over MSRP.

As far as the 2011 Speedster goes.... no chance they still own it on an MSO. That means its a used car, who knows how much over MSRP they paid for it.

This is all invaluable info. Thank you for sharing it on the forum.

I hope everyone, who ever dreamed of buying, or leasing, a new Porsche, can put to use the info in this thread to their advantage. Bravo to trader220 and others who have shared this insider info.

For a while Porsche was enforcing a 'no market adjustment' rule, and I saw a Carrera GT sell new & almost immediately come back as "used" with a +$150K higher price than sticker. To what extent the dealer was 'in' on it, I do not know. But I've seen that tactic more than once.

Its a blurry line. Porsche looks the other way for the most part but it also depends who you are. The easiest way around the No Markup rule, is to sell a GT car as a used car. If you're not a big dealer and you have to fight for your GT cars you might want to think twice about selling over sticker or at least having it come out that you are. The path to getting more GT cars (which are really the money makers for the small dealers) is to play by the rules and not fuss about the dealers who don't.

I think this thread has run its course - please remember that this is a public forum and to be civil. Disagreements are fine but name calling is not.