How many miles are too many miles?
 

In 2002, I bought a 72 911 on eBay and the guy's wife (apparently miffed over the selling price) wrote 499,000 as the mileage on the title. Dick(less) move, i thought, but they have 5-digit odometers, so I wasn't too concerned.

I later sold the car and that didn't bother the buyer.

BUT since I do a lot of 'matchmaking' I find the largest portion of 911 shoppers don't want >150K mile cars. They consider that "high miles," even though an 84 Carrera would have had to only go 4,285 miles per year to hit that number.

There are high mile cars out there at big discounts. I bought an 85 Carrera with 225K miles in 2010, for what I figure was a 55-60% discount at the time.

What's your personal limit on (chassis) mileage?

for 1965-73 911s

For 74-89 911s

For 964 & 993s

Miles aren’t scary if there is paperwork for engine work/rebuild(s).

This!!!

300k and up I tend to avoid. But if it had a total resto I wouldn’t thing twice

The issue with high miles is more possibilities for people to have kludged them up along the way. One mans restoration is another mans disaster....

A 50,000 mile car with no service can be worse than a 300,000 mile car with proper care and maintenance. But the car listed with 50,000 miles will get more interested parties every time.

I would consider any car with under 200,000 miles.. I initially consider a car by how the owner maintains the car with records, wrecks, color. I will not touch a car In the rust belt.

I like a good driver.

Lots of variables here, I'll take a higher mileage Motronic engine vs one running out of tune carbs anytime, for example.

For the older cars, it's all about chassis rust, rust and rust. Mileage, who knows what that is ?

Someone close to me got a tip of a 3.2 for sale at a pretty low price. Upon inspection, we found some fixable rust and a broken speedo, among other things. While they were on the test drive I went through the paper work, did the math and determined the car had about 300K on it and about 90K since the last rebuild. I recognized the rebuilder however, spoke to him and he remembered the car, the rebuild and the work. He told me other stuff might go wrong with the car, but he virtually guaranteed it wouldn't be that rebuilt engine.

After a little work and not much money, that car is now happily on the road, looking great, running great and fast as hell. He's into it for about half of what he could sell it for.

Parts are replaceable, engines are rebuildable. With the proper work and maintenance, these cars will last forever.

With all due respect, I feel anyone that believes the mileage on any air cooled 911 really needs to have their head examined. I've had more odometers stop than I can count but I've gotten them fixed within a few weeks. I doubt very much people rush to get these fixed. Just my .02

182,454 exactly.

When we start talking about 20-30-40 year old cars mileage becomes irrelevant, condition and history are everything.

+1. When I bought my 87 a couple years ago, it had 37k miles on the odometer. PPI showed poor leakdown/compression #s in #6 and needed a top-end. The shop that did the rebuild said it was likely due to sitting too much, something about the valve guides are made of brass and oil just sitting there for long periods can corrode it, hence the lack of compression.

About 2K every year miles considering these miles not put on in bad weather from new. If from a salty coastal air climate well cleaned regularly after exposure. If then usually all a buyer needs to take care of any obvious wear or time related service or cosmetic ( rubber etc ) issues.

My feeling is once you cross 150K on any of these just keep on driving. Rinse, repair...and repeat. Protect it from the weather and enjoy them for what they are and were intended to be.

For a driver there is no limit. Depends on how good the deal is and if I’m ok with the risk or known repairs.

If I were looking of a time capsule 50k would be the limit


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Yeah, I'm with most of you. I've had two later 911s with 200K miles on them; my current car has 110K.

I'm always amazed at the crazy premiums the super low mileage cars bring.

I mentioned chassis mileage for a reason -- the drivetrain is going to need regular rebuilding on a cycle. But the chassis parts that wear out often blindside you. And the shell of the car can get flexed enough so that it just doesn't feel 'right' in aggressive driving. But I've found that in 50K mile cars, and driven 200K mile cars that felt like new.

So I approach 911s with high miles as "on sale." Only thing is, they can be very hard to sell when the time comes.

1979sc coupe 215,000 miles, driven lots and doing just fine.
I do wonder about resale though.

Funny thing about mileage, if you separate the engine from the chassis nobody cares any more on either, rust , accident damage, leak down is what people look for. But if you leave them together mileage is important for both regardless of the earlier mentioned attributes.

So easy for a dishonest seller to tamper with odometer and paperwork. I don't think is matter that much. How do you trust a low mileage seller w/o a lot of good records?

Mileage vs pricing
 

Mileage that impacts pricing per type generally goes down with the age of the vehicle, and of course if the vehicle is a lower production type or a “special” - Carrera RS, Club Sport, M491, Roadster, Turbos, etc..

I think most enthusiasts are a bit of a different buyer and will focus more on condition, while a collector will focus more on type, colors, and documented mileage.

‘65-‘73 is a very broad group, with early models being the least affected by mileage. Does anybody really care if a ‘65 911 has over 200k miles? 356’s don’t seem to be affected much either, especially the early ones (similar to early 911’s). Maybe “run of the mill 911’s,” like a standard ‘69 T it does somewhat, but I think a documented low mileage original (remember these old ones were easy to pull the odometer cable out) will always command a premium, and of course the type (“S”).

The mileage concerns increase with newer types. Does anyone want a post G series air cooled 911 with 300k miles without a binder of documented repairs? If the price is right maybe...

My thoughts are that the majority of buyers would like an under 200k mile air cooled car, unless they are really early cars or special types. When I was in the market (ended up with a 160k mile SC), 200k was kinda my rule of thumb for all “G” models I was interested in.

I looked at a lot of “low mile” cars, which of course weren’t low mile cars and were rather rough - someone had swapped odometers and/or pulled the speedo feed circuit/cable. My SC retained the ridiculous 85 mph speedometer and had interior wear commensurate with the indicated mileage. I gave up trusting mileage and bought based on condition.

G450X - good point. The number of SCs that have had the speedometers swapped out is very high. I also watch for Euro/ROW cars with MPH speedos.

It’s super rare that those swaps are documented.

Another point to remember about mileage...is not to just assume you can divide total mileage by age to get a true year to year average. This is where good documentation comes into play, to determine whether, for example, that 200K '79 SC saw roughly equal miles per year since new...or did most of those miles occur in the first ten years - and did the car end up sitting for any significant length of time since?

Miles in general is one of those really touchy subjects and usually very un-realistic. To me the fact that most German cars tend to amass high miles is a testament to what great cars they are. Ever wonder why every Maserati Bi-Turbo and Delorean are advertised as "low miles", it's because they never ran right and didn't get driven. While a comparable 80's 911 has 300,000 miles, because it got driven, and no dry rotted belts because they got changed.
Another example of the strangeness of what are now collector cars but were sold as just nice cars, I have a 99 Benz C43 AMG, a pretty rare car and I'm the 2nd owner. The first owner was a DR in Atlanta who bought it and drove it, as a result it had 105,000 miles when I got it, it now has about 113,000 after 12 years with me. But the AMG wheenies say my car is high miles. It's a 20 year old car!
So to answer the original question, if you're buying a car as an investment or super collector car, buy a very low miles example, and keep it parked. But if you want to drive your car, find the one with a zillion miles and drive it like you stole it. It is has 300,000 miles on it I bet you won't have to worry about little stuff breaking, it broke at 200,000 miles and was replaced. You should never be afraid to drive your car in fear of putting miles on it. My rule is to never have a dog or a car I'm afraid of, as a result all my cars are drivers and my dogs only terrify mice.

---Adam

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Funny that on an air cooled 911, the miles don't bother me that much so long as I have done my homework on the condition of the car and its history. As has been said repeatedly here, the ODO's are notoriously wrong, so on lower miles cars I need to see a progression of paperwork to make me believe the miles. Beyond that its all about condition.

In terms of other German cars, the miles scare the piss out of me. Having been around Audi's for decades the high miles cars are just prone to nickle an dime you to death. My DD is a big Lexus GX470. I have 114k miles on my 05 and I plan on keeping well past 200k maybe 300k. Almost nothing breaks on the car. Other than regular maintenance all I have done is to rebuild the front calipers, period, end of story. Regular maintenance consists of oil changes, and other consumables, and at 90k miles a timing belt and water pump. I would shudder to think what my costs would have been on an Audi Q7 or Mercedes GL over 115k miles.

Air cooled 911's are unique in that respect. Especially the G-body and older ones. They're not exactly complex cars, and they grossly over engineered in many respects.

The bummer for me is I am sitting on a very very nice 88 coupe with 68k miles on it. Someone will pay a lot more for it if I sell it with 68k miles rather than run it up to 80, or over 100k. I have to make a choice as whether to keep it or not.

I care mostly about the miles on the chassis and then how many miles since the last engine and gearbox rebuilds.

I wouldn't consider a chassis over 200k mi unless it had been gone through and all the bushings and bearings, struts and brakes, etc. have been replaced less than 50k ago.

I want an engine to also have 50k since it's last rebuild (with receipts) and 30-40K on the gearbox. This only applies to a car with a chassis over 100k mi. I wouldn't rule out something like a 125k mi SC that was on the original engine with 50K on the gearbox. But put that same engine and gearbox into a 175k chassis and I'm not interested unless the chassis has been refreshed.

you hope to get what you pay for

in that respect mileage doesn't matter

i will say though, the digits on mechanical odometers on 911s tend not to line up -
and im told its super easy to tamper with them

so the odometer reading is merely 1 piece of a puzzle so to speak

i love the swarmy phrases people use to describe mileage

"75k miles no reason to believe its not original miles"

closer inspection finds the car was busted in half lol the fromt part had 250k the rear part has 170k

nice thick coat of paint though

funny stuff happens as the values have rocketed up

for me
65 to 73: mileage irrelevant
74 to 94: Under 100K
95 & above: Under 60K