BaT advice needed. Seller is making excuses...

[amg463]

I would walk away and count your blessings my friend.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by speednme1

It's an online auction..like ebay is. There are no contracts with ebay either. The cars are not in their possession nor have they incurred any cost that are beyond the initial fee. Let's put it this way, how many people have signed a contract in a dealer and the dealer sells the car right under the buyer's nose? It happens often and there is really nothing anyone can do. Court? that's a joke. Not worth the time,effort or money. I learned that lesson years ago with a Rolex I purchased at a store. Long story short, the owner of the store wanted more money (after I had paid for it). I contacted everyone and their mother...including the state's AG. I was pretty much told the battle was not worth it. So I took my lumps (and my refund) and moved on.......the irony to my story is that the owner of the store was killed a couple of years later by a hitman in broad daylight. Apparently he was a dirty business man...Karma is a bit*h

Rey, an eBay auction IS a contract. It would be legally binding if you chose to test it in court. The 930 I didn’t list on BaT went to a dealer on consignment, and yes, we signed a contract. A legally binding contract. Silly me to just assume that BaT conducted business properly.

For those trying to figure out which car, this is it, just search for his handle...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-porsche-911-carrera-s-3-6-10/

I’d have to say the seller probably felt short changed with the BaT rah-rah cheerleading posse, you know the ones that think every car is worth way more than they really are. All of those post hammer congrats probably killed the sale. Which is why you obviously need a damn contract with the sellers.

[kreeshp]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Rey, an eBay auction IS a contract. It would be legally binding if you chose to test it in court. The 930 I didn’t list on BaT went to a dealer on consignment, and yes, we signed a contract. A legally binding contract.

...edited for brevity...

eBay bids on motor vehicle and real estate listings are NOT binding.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/nonbinding-bid-policy?id=4228

[pmax]

Originally Posted by JMS935

I’d imagine this could turn into a larger problem for BaT than for either a single buyer or seller if they don’t act to enforce their legal contract, based on that I’d think that BaT would do everything they can to help close this transaction. I couldn’t agree upon a reserve with BaT on a 930 I wanted to list, so I had to make the decision not to list my car with them for this very reason. This seller apparently took the gamble that if the hammer fell with the price in between their own internal set reserve and BaT’s actual set reserve, that they’re just going to back out of the sale even though they signed a contract. If sellers see that they don’t really have to sell their car at the conclusion of the auction if they don’t like the hammer price (because they never really agreed with BaT’s set reserve), then BaT could have much bigger problems on their hands. With cars not really for sale, the bidders won’t show up. Without bidders showing up, sellers will lose interest as well. I guess what I’m saying, is that BaT really needs to nip this kind of seller behavior in the bud before it becomes a serious problem for their platform. If they choose to do nothing, then sellers will see zero risk in listing their car for only $99 if they won’t really be held to closing the sale if they don’t like the hammer price, because it’s great exposure at the very least for the listing fee. BaT really can’t sit idle on this issue, they need to protect their platform, they need to enforce their legal contract. Otherwise it becomes worthless.

Originally Posted by JMS935

Rey, an eBay auction IS a contract. It would be legally binding if you chose to test it in court. The 930 I didn’t list on BaT went to a dealer on consignment, and yes, we signed a contract. A legally binding contract. Silly me to just assume that BaT conducted business properly.

For those trying to figure out which car, this is it, just search for his handle...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-porsche-911-carrera-s-3-6-10/

I’d have to say the seller probably felt short changed with the BaT rah-rah cheerleading posse, you know the ones that think every car is worth way more than they really are. All of those post hammer congrats probably killed the sale. Which is why you obviously need a damn contract with the sellers.

All that verbiage and you have gotten the facts wrong with the contract blah blah confusion....

plz, spare my eyes, I can only read that much.

[JMS935]

Bozos...read further, the non binding aspect of it only applies to the buyer - not the seller. The seller is bound to a contract if the buyer intends to follow through with the purchase. The BaT auction would at minimum work the same exact way, but it would help if the auction house, BaT in this instance, had their seller also sign a listing contract. I hope I kept that short enough for you ppman.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Bozos...read further, the non binding aspect of it only applies to the buyer - not the seller. The seller is bound to a contract if the buyer intends to follow through with the purchase. The BaT auction would at minimum work the same exact way, but it would help if the auction house, BaT in this instance, had their seller also sign a listing contract. I hope I kept that short enough for you ppman.

BAT is not an auction house, it is an auction service for your vehicle. There is a difference. I agree with you that both should be binding but that is not the case. Even if you list your car with an auction house or consign your car with a dealer. You as the owner(title holder) have every right to not to sell(pull the vehicle) if you choose to but you will incur fees as the selling dealer or auction house can claim that your vehicle has taken storage space and time. You also may be at their mercy since they have your vehicle. It may take going to court to retrieve your car but in the end you will get your car but will lose some money in the process. Once again, I too would be upset if I won an auction and the seller tried to pull a fast one. Part of any good sale is the seller too. If the seller is a douche, the car may not be as great as he or she makes it out to be.

[dg567]

Auction houses require you submit the title with the vehicle... and they hold it for a period after the auction if it doesn’t sell and try to sell it for you.

[LUFTKUL]

BAT in California with seller and "winner" in potentially 2 additional different states... that BAT contract can be as binding in language as it wants, but with no leverage -BAT holding title of car- it will never be worth the scratch or hassle to complete the deal.

This particular saga certainly paints BAT in a negative light. I wonder if the upstarts at pcarmarket.com handle this differently?

[rxtrom]

I really appreciate the help everyone, I do.

[trader220]

I would bet someone got a hold of the seller and offered more.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by dg567

Auction houses require you submit the title with the vehicle... and they hold it for a period after the auction if it doesn’t sell and try to sell it for you.

Perhaps, but in the case of one big auction house, they allowed a valued bidder to renege on a purchase last August at Pebble. And it was months after the hammer dropped. This happened to one of the people on Pelican. He may not be willing to share the details...

[Mocker]

Originally Posted by trader220

I would bet someone got a hold of the seller and offered more.

No doubt. From the comments, after the hammer fell at $76.8k:

May 14 at 4:09 PM
Finestkind 1

rxtrom Congrats I hit place Bid at 80k but was too late!! I drove her today and she was a flawless example well loved by a great owner who was renown for his abilities in the wet! Drive her and enjoy.

[speednme1]

Now that I see the car, the sale was not the deal of the century. With the mileage and condition, I say it was fair but by no means worth any more than what is sold for. I would gladly walk away from that sale if it were me.

[trader220]

I would "out" the seller on BAT too

[75 911s]

100% walk away. Shady seller is painful to deal with. Continued dealings will deal more pain.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Now that I see the car, the sale was not the deal of the century. With the mileage and condition, I say it was fair but by no means worth any more than what is sold for. I would gladly walk away from that sale if it were me.

Agreed. Get your fees back and move on. Karma will be coming to the seller.

[rxtrom]

Thanks everyone. I emailed BaT, apparently they do not have a contact number, and stated the issue with request for a refund. Which got me thinking, how would they know or not if the deal went through? I guess they are going to contact the seller? Still...

For what it is worth the listing party, acting on behalf of the seller, seems pretty straight forward on the situation. He gave me the owners info and cell number and it all checks out per my own internet sleuthing. I tried to make one last attempt to make the deal happen and contacted the owner, but no answer.
Now while I am waiting on BaT to refund me I am back in the hunt for a 993 S in blue with all the right options...

[BLACK3.2]

They usually get back to you by email within a day.

Regardless, I would post to the comments on the sale itself, and I would also post a pic of the auction closing to instagram with your complaint and tag BaT.

[rxtrom]

Thanks. I do not have Twitter or the gram. I told the seller he should explain himself on the chat and it looks like he did.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-porsche-911-carrera-s-3-6-10/

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by rxtrom

Thanks. I do not have Twitter or the gram. I told the seller he should explain himself on the chat and it looks like he did.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-porsche-911-carrera-s-3-6-10/

Hmmm the “widow”....which means the car has sat probably around without service or care. She may have saved you thousands of dollars getting the car right. I once tried to purchase a Ruf BTR conversion from a seller once. She too thought the car was worth more than my offer. She eventually had to spend a few thousand to service the car and then the car sold for about $5k less than my offer. Her lesson was expensive, as will be the seller of the car you speak of. If not part of PCA, join them...plenty of good cars on their classifieds.