Used 911 with history of damage?

[aways]

I have the opportunity to buy a used 2014 911S where the CarFax report has an instance of "damage reported" I spoke to the dealer and was assured that it was cosmetic damage to the side of the car (~$4,000 repair done by a high-end shop) with no structural damage. I've seen the car and it looks great. Any ideas about what percentage the car has declined in value due to this accident? I'm just estimating how much below the KBB value to consider assuming I end up making an offer.

[nathanbs]

First of all I wouldn’t take their word for it that the damage was minor. Ask to see the repair invoice.

[aways]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

First of all I wouldn’t take their word for it that the damage was minor. Ask to see the repair invoice.

Yes, thanks. I have done that, and am awaiting the repair records. I know that even with minor damage, the value is diminished. At this point I'm looking for a lower limit estimate on the devaluation.

[faapgar]

The issue is the chassis.There are only a couple of places that can fix the chassis with aluminum.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by faapgar

The issue is the chassis.There are only a couple of places that can fix the chassis with aluminum.

I’ve yet to have one with actual chassis damage that once properly diagnosed wasn’t a total loss

[David Borden]

Figure between a 10 and 15% reduction in value, along with it being a much more difficult sell if you ever decide to move it along.

[trader220]

I am sure they'll offer the car a bit below the market... odds are they're not going to make it 10 or 15% below the market. $4000 bucks on a 911 at the body shop doesn't go very far, especially if something like a headlight needed to be replaced.

When was the damage? If it was a few years ago and its been on the road with no issues for several years plus then showing you a RO for $4000 I can pretty much guarantee you wont get 10% or more below the market.

Even after saying that.... it never hurts to ask for a cheap price. For me, if it was the exact year, make, model, color I wanted... I could careless about a ding on the carfax if its a $4000 one. There are a ton of 991.1's on the market these days so the choices are out there.

As far as being more difficult to sell, it really depends on when you go to sell it. If you've kept the car for a number of years and there has been no issue it wont be that big a deal to sell, especially if you have the RO from the work. Take a look at how many 10 year old cars have a ding on the carfax.

[zedsn]

4000 damage doesn't get very for on a car now adays not to mention it is a porsche so the damage appears to be minimal. Having a minor damage issue is not uncommon and not a deal breaker in my book but if the title was rebuilt that would be a whole other ball game.

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by aways

I spoke to the dealer and was assured

Just the tip, I assure you.

[Locker537]

Unless the car is special, where you define special, my preference is to pass on a car with a blemish on the carfax.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I’ve yet to have one with actual chassis damage that once properly diagnosed wasn’t a total loss

In many case this is correct, although we have put several left & right and rear rails in.. including Factory Cup Cars.
Very few of the cars with heavy frontal have been repaired.. hell, I'm gonna say none.

Originally Posted by faapgar

The issue is the chassis.There are only a couple of places that can fix the chassis with aluminum.

Originally Posted by zedsn

4000 damage doesn't get very for on a car now adays not to mention it is a porsche so the damage appears to be minimal. Having a minor damage issue is not uncommon and not a deal breaker in my book but if the title was rebuilt that would be a whole other ball game.

The catch is how extensive was the damage and who did the repair? As mentioned, "4000 damage doesn't get very far" on these cars. We've had a few with just the under-trays and bumper ripped-up, no other damage, and the repair is over $4k.

If its structural, the repair has to be done by a Porsche Certified repair facility.. and the way this is controlled is that Porsche will not sell you, or Joe blow the repair parts if the shop is not Porsche Certified.. and they're serious about it. If it is a Porsche dealership, and the body-shop is not Porsche Certified, they prohibited from even ordering the part unless it has been verified that it is going to the certified shop for repair.. in essence, the shop has to order the part from the dealer. Part of this is to protect the viability of their certified pre-owned market as well as to help mitigate issues and/or lawsuits down the road if a used vehicle has been purchased with disclosed or undisclosed damage.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by onboost

In many case this is correct, although we have put several left & right and rear rails in.. including Factory Cup Cars.
Very few of the cars with heavy frontal have been repaired.. hell, I'm gonna say none.






The catch is how extensive was the damage and who did the repair? As mentioned, "4000 damage doesn't get very far" on these cars. We've had a few with just the under-trays and bumper ripped-up, no other damage, and the repair is over $4k.

If its structural, the repair has to be done by a Porsche Certified repair facility.. and the way this is controlled is that Porsche will not sell you, or Joe blow the repair parts if the shop is not Porsche Certified.. and they're serious about it. If it is a Porsche dealership, and the body-shop is not Porsche Certified, they prohibited from even ordering the part unless it has been verified that it is going to the certified shop for repair.. in essence, the shop has to order the part from the dealer. Part of this is to protect the viability of their certified pre-owned market as well as to help mitigate issues and/or lawsuits down the road if a used vehicle has been purchased with disclosed or undisclosed damage.

I have been so close to spending gazillions of dollars I cant tell you how many times to be Jaguar certified, Porsche certified, Tesla certified,etc only to pull back and decide to wait until the amount of jobs that I am losing is noteworthy enough to make the investment. I've literally been able to total all but 2-3 cars in the last 10 years that would have had to go to a OEM certified shop. Just not worth the investment. I've also had many come from certified shops where the customer thought and wanted their car to be a total and the certified shop said it wasn't a total only for me to successfully total their car.

[sugarwood]

Dealers love to sell cars with crash damage.
They buy them way cheaper than what the clueless buyer pays.

What kind of discount are you looking at?
My guess is that it's not enough.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Dealers love to sell cars with crash damage.
They buy them way cheaper than what the clueless buyer pays.

What kind of discount are you looking at?
My guess is that it's not enough.

LoL ... That's a myth. You don't get to buy them "way" cheaper and they're harder to sell.

When a customer rolls in with a trade in do you think he's willing to take WAY less because of a ding on the carfax? LOL spend a little time at a dealership listening to these people trying to sell you their trade. Don't waste time with the line that people roll in and don't care about their trade value. Sure maybe 1 in a 100.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by trader220

LoL ... That's a myth. You don't get to buy them "way" cheaper and they're harder to sell.

If they are smart enough to see or find the damage sure they do. Do you how much “your car has frame damage” equates to in the way of a discount?

[trader220]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

If they are smart enough to see or find the damage sure they do. Do you how much “your car has frame damage” equates to in the way of a discount?

I am not talking about frame damage. Great, as a dealer do you really want to buy a car with frame damage? Do you think you can sell it without disclosing frame damage? The lawyers would skin you alive.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by trader220

I am not talking about frame damage. Great, as a dealer do you really want to buy a car with frame damage? Do you think you can sell it without disclosing frame damage? The lawyers would skin you alive.

They call non-frame damage, “frame damage” to rape the customer I see it all of the time

[trader220]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

They call non-frame damage, “frame damage” to rape the customer I see it all of the time

That'a ridiculous.... you can make up anything or any story you want, (you're funny). In this day and age the lawyers would have a field day with that sort of stuff, and consumers are well armed with information.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by trader220

That'a ridiculous.... you can make up anything or any story you want, (you're funny). In this day and age the lawyers would have a field day with that sort of stuff, and consumers are well armed with information.

I’m not making this up I live this shiet every day. I have owned and operated a collision shop for 21 years I’ve seen just about everything. I have had no less than 20 instances where people were told they had frame damage as part of a negotiation tactic. Who’s going to sue for what damages? Show me an attorney that will take a case like this. Attorneys don’t like to work. They want you to have everything served up on a silver platter with a signed admission of guilt and promise to pay before they are even interested to take a case unless of course you want to pay $300+ per hour at your own expense. Consumers armed with what? The average consumer has no clue and when an “expert” is confidently telling you that you have “frame” damage many are gullible enough to not to know they are being had. A lot of the stories have come from people who have brought me their car for a second opinion this having no damages to sue for as they didn’t fall for it.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I’m not making this up I live this shiet every day. I have owned and operated a collision shop for 21 years I’ve seen just about everything. I have had no less than 20 instances where people were told they had frame damage as part of a negotiation tactic. Who’s going to sue for what damages? Show me an attorney that will take a case like this. Attorneys don’t like to work. They want you to have everything served up on a silver platter with a signed admission of guilt and promise to pay before they are even interested to take a case unless of course you want to pay $300+ per hour at your own expense. Consumers armed with what? The average consumer has no clue and when an “expert” is confidently telling you that you have “frame” damage many are gullible enough to not to know they are being had. A lot of the stories have come from people who have brought me their car for a second opinion this having no damages to sue for as they didn’t fall for it.

You have an awffully low opinion of everyone but yourself. So in 21 years you know a total of 20 people who claim that, so you make it appear as if that's a common occurance and in this day and age. Pathetic.

BTW I'm an independent car dealer, I was the GSM at a Porsche dealership , never once heard of anyone doing that. Oh yeah ... My girlfriend is an attorney... You clearly don't know much about being an attorney either. Oops sorry, you know everything about everything . Come on, think about the implications of what you're saying based on twenty people and generalizations about a profession.