COA ... numbers matching info NLA?
 

Tell me it ain't so!

I have a 1969 911T highly original low miles.
I am fairly confident that the engine and trans are number matching. I do not have a COA or a Kardex. Shoulda done it years ago but, DUH!

And, now I hear the COA no longer comes with the eng / trans numbers.
I have heard that if I PROVIDE the number of eng / trans then if CORRECT the coa certificate will print those number on the certificate.

True / False ?

I want to know for sure if this is a numbers matching car.
What is the best way to get this info now?

And if coa will not verify the numbers will a kardex do the trick?

Thanks for your input.
Doug

I’ve been told the only way now is to go to one of the 8? Porsche Classic dealers and pay them a small chunk of money to do an inspection on your car. One of the things they do is report your engine and trans numbers to Porsche of America and they will then in turn print the numbers on a COA I believe. Fun!

Several years ago, I called Porsche to verify my 911e (engine and Ronnie); I had to fax them a copy of the title and my DL. They called me back with the numbers for my 69.

Not sure if they still do that.

MattR

^^^

That special wishes gearbox probably added at least $25k to your car's overall value, bisch!!!

Ok
You can buy a book telling us VIN numbers to the engine and transmission
This will tell you a range of engines vs the range of VIN numbers
Start with that and if in the ranges it’s very likely matching
I used the book in the days when looking at cars because the COA was $100

Very unlikely someone would install a engine in the correct range to the VIN
But. In later cars the vin and engine numbers are on the hood sicker

I went through something similar last year.
PCNA wouldn't give me the numbers, but they did verify the numbers I provided.

Negative Ghostrider. It’s very very common for people to have the correct year and series type as the next best thing to the original. I have 4 cars personally that are all missing their original motors but have the correct year and type so that’s a big fat no sorry to say. Which cars have a sticker under the hood with the engine number on it?

It’s all changed now. My first comment above is the only way now as I understand it

Thanks for all the responses regarding the COA. I will see if I can find a workaround.
- Doug

Yep. Seen it more times than I have toes and fingers. Same reason I have a 1974 911/83 case in my garage with the number scraped off it. Someone wanted to make it look like a replacement case for a car that had lost its original. I bought it after the car owner found his original and reunited them.

I believe the classic P delear inspection/ # verification is now $500.

I provided the engine and transmission numbers from my 356 on the “CoA” application (it’s called something else) and the certificate came back as “matching numbers” w/appropriate numbers listed.

An earlier experience w a different car (911) sent PCA the same data, I got a call that the numbers weren’t matching, and did I still want to pay for the certificate. I agreed, and the certificate listed “information not verified,” which I knew already.

Unfortunately this is already the old process. They will no longer confirm numbers such as they did on your 356 without it going to a porsche classic dealer and having an inspection

NIGHTMARE! PORSCHE scamming their base.
 

NIGHTMARE! PORSCHE scamming their base. Dig into this to understand what they've done to everyone. Sarah is usually on that would help everyone at the COA dept. NO LONGER!

Classic Technical Certificate (CTC) which is a comprehensive certificate providing important production information and technical specifications of your Porsche. For information regarding the CTC, please visit the below website.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/vehicleinformation



coa@porsche.us
Sara Edie
Porsche Specialist, Certificate of Authenticity
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354-9817

Someone should start at threat "Boycott Classic Technical Certificate (CTC)" See who in on this...

Hey, Wintersurf! Fish around for anyone offering a Kardex. It's a 'backdoor' service that requires some... um, rewards to insiders, but your 69 is the last year the Kardex was used, and it's far more accurate and valuable than the old CoA was.

That is correct. They will do a full inspection of the car and report its issues as condition in a nicely printed document in a folder. It is several pages of info but they will not make note of originality and will just state if the engine and trans numbers are within range for that MY of car.

A lot of BS if you ask me.

This looks like a lot of "lawyering up" by Porsche, especially for the litigious US. I can imagine more than one lawsuit cropping up over a factory statement of originality and a purported "original matching numbers" car being disputed as a result.

'numbers within range?'

Any one of us could do that with 10 minutes of googling...

Since values have increased and fraud is definitely out there, I don't think Porsche AG wants to get involved in any lawsuits.

Yep. And their records have never been great to start with. Plenty of COAs out there already that don’t agree with their cardex version. They know they have exposure and are covering it, at a tidy profit.

Or looking in the red book - wonder if this new process adds a bit of value to the original COAs ?

I know the old COAs weren't accurate when it listed what the car came with but they were always spot on with the engine and trans numbers of my cars.

We were grumbling at spending $100 for a piece of paper - how many pelicans have spent $500 for the new " inspection"

My bumble bee says tranny number not known. My old 70T said the same thing. Both had correct engine numbers.

Amen

I will say I have 2 CofA's for one of my cars and the first one was missing some options. They have the engine number correct but I had to supply them with the window sticker to fix the mistakes.

Techweenie,
Thanks for your advice. Pursuing the Kardex option.
Thanks for the tip!
Regards.
Doug
(Wintersurf)

Update FROM Porsche COA DEPARTMENT :

Hello,

The new PPS will not include the engine and transmission numbers. It will only list engine and transmission type.


Kind Regards,

Marianne Priess
Porsche Specialist, Certificate of Authenticity
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354-9817

Phone: 1-800-PORSCHE (1-800-767-7243)
Fax: 1-800-322-2436
Email: COA@porsche.us

When I got my COA a few years ago for my 356 it was $200. I was able to obtain my Kardex for $250 Canadian.about 2 years ago.

This policy of not providing the engine and transmission numbers began in Germany years before the U.S.

Glad I got my COA last year on my barn find 69E, obviously right before they changed their policies. Thanks Porsche for making my cars, along with their COA's showing numbers matching that much more valuable. I feel for the honest guy wanting to know his numbers, especially 356's where people are more on the hunt for the original engine and tranny.

I procured one in the "olden days," when you just needed proof of ownership to get the CoA. Then they switched to Ownership AND engine# and Trans#. If neither number was correct the CoA would state "Engine number nor confirmed." Now this? OTOH, unless you go through the expensive process for an expensive car, you'll never know if they match or not.

I'm can hope thet the '80 SC I just bought is original. Likely I'll never know. :D

This will only hurt Porsche classic parts sales. Who’s going to want to drop 100k or more to restore a 356 or early 911, when the restorer knows the first question the buyer will ask is if it’s numbers matching. This is a game changer for anyone with a classic that wishes to sell, but does not have a coa. They better have the original purchase invoice, or service book, and hope vin and engine number is on it.

What? When I asked a few weeks ago about a friend who was considering buying a Targa with a 3.6 installed, I was quickly told that numbers that do not match do not mean anything any more! 3.6 much more valuable than the 3.0 that was in the car. Also the 356 cars have not needed matching numbers for the last 20 years. I guess numbers matching does not matter if you do not have numbers matching .

My point is there are two camps on this site , one says matching numbers at all costs , the other says does not matter , modification makes cars more valuable. All I know Is that a very nice 1959 356 that has had 3 different motors installed in its life and currently has a newer 356 motor , is still worth over 100G.

Also known - in that order - as people with a brain and people with no clue.

356's with matching numbers do maintain their prices after an engine swap better than 911's owing to the "disposable" nature of those engines way back when. But matching number cars still command a very significant premium over non-matching cars. To say "it does not matter" isn't even close to the truth. I'm shopping for a T2 Speedster right now and matching numbers adds an easy 25%, sometimes much more, at the top of the market.

I’m just saying that you have it both ways on this site . You just proved my point with your remark on the value if a 356 with an engine swap! To the disposable nature of those engines. Sorry, those motors were built like a tank and could be rebuilt many times. People over 60 years just messed with them and wanted more horsepower and replaced them with 1600 CC rebuilds or motors. I’m an old VW guy. The very same thing happened to those cars. Remember the 1800 CC craze in a bug? Same with the 356. The 356 and some 911’s get a pass and you are in denial.

Clearly if you are buying a driver that has been modified why even concern yourself with a CofA?

If you are buying an all original car and paying a premium for it a CofA with engine serial number and for some models the transaxle serial number is a must.

I wouldn't waste my money on a CTC. It is useless & overpriced. I have seen classic Porsche dealerships kill deals claiming the car was not what it should be when they had their info all wrong. They were inspecting a 91 turbo and didn't know enough about the car so they used a 94 turbo to compare it to. The 94 is a very different car in many respects. It killed the sale and the car ended up with a tainted report for $500 when there was nothing wrong with it.

+++ ^^^^++++, the weak link in the new certificate and process are the "inspectors" at the dealership who don't know older cars.

I think the cars with COA have some additional value today and in the future even if they are incorrect with relationship to listed accessories. 5 -10 years from now will good , clean solid cars with no COA be worth less or will the market adapt and COAs cause a bump up in price for those cars possessing them and non COA cars be more mainline pricing?