964 vs 993 Turbo

[JoeyJoeJoJr]

964 Turbo prices have been bumping up close to 993 prices for a while so I'm cross shopping them a bit.

I was wondering if anyone here has spent significant time in both and wouldn't mind commenting on a comparison of the two?

[Cobalt]

I am assuming you re talking the earlier 91-92 3.3L 964 turbos vs the 993TT. The 94 3.6Turbos surpassed the 993TT a long time ago with average high mile cars in the $225k range and nice clean examples breaking the $300K price point.

These are all very different cars. The 3.3l uses the older 930 engine essentially. far more civilized than the 930's but still a little laggy and not much faster than the 89 5 speed 930 in stock form. These can be easily modified to add power with simple bolt on mods. Power is intoxicating when done right as it comes on with a rush and although the cars are not fast by todays standards have points of power that will take your breath away.

The 3.6L is a bit different still raw and visceral like the 930 or 3.3L 964 T but a bit more civilized with a better off boost feel and a bit more power and torque. 2nd and 3rd gear is surprisingly fast for a car 25 years old.

Both these cars use the old heavy rear trailing arm suspension which is a bit slow at reacting but these cars offer a unique driving experience with a lot of road feel and a talent needed to drive at speed. As I said when the power comes on it is a rush and can be rather addictive

The 993TT is a very different ride. Far more civilized rather flat power curve AWD a bit heavier and although faster on paper off the line I have never had a 993TT leave me behind in my 3.6T with slight mods. Usually in 2nd or 3rd gear I will gain on the 993TT even with updated turbos and tweaks. A far more civilized less raw and visceral experience.

They are all great rides each uniquely different. I spent several years searching for the turbo i wanted and in the end after driving them all I settled on the 964 3.6T Last of the single turbo RWD air-cooled Porsche's. Classic lines and looks along with a driving experience that IMO is one of the more unique and exciting of these cars.

Pricing is all over the place and there are very few of these that are in what I consider nice condition. Many of them have hidden issues and will need $$$ dumped into them to make them right so do you research and test drive as many as you can. Don't buy them as an investment but because you like it and you will be happy with whatever you settle on.

[JoeyJoeJoJr]

Thanks for the thorough reply!

[911boost]

I have owned a modified ‘92 964T and Anthony is spot on. While not nearly as “fast” as the bone stock 996TT I had, it was a much more visceral driving experience. If you aren’t careful, the single turbo cars will bite you.

My current GT3RS is a NA motor, and while newer, a much different set of skills and attention is required when driving it.

[GG Allin]

It wasn't all that long ago that a 94 could be had for less than a 993 Turbo. I think one of the Bad Boys movie cars sold at auction for around $75k, 6 or 7 years ago.

[Cobalt]

I know the owner of the Bad Boys Movie car and it sold a long time ago for less. Went to the Drendel collection and then back to my friend after Matt's death. He still has it. I almost purchased it myself when it sold for less than a decent C2 today. However Hagerty values it at $500k today. There were many cars since claiming to be the BB car but weren't. I see 91-92 sellers put RH speedline copies on them and try to claim they were the actual movie car.

The 94's surpassed the 993TT about 2011 when the one of three cobalt blue with modified light gray interior sold for $175k. Suddenly pricing went crazy and values started to skyrocket. The same car recently sold all in for $310K at auction. IMO it was undersold but the market is quite narrow and there are many cars that can be had for that price range. Although only a handful of these are worth that much and many are substandard condition still bringing more than a pristine 3.3L.

[GG Allin]

I Thought I remembered hearing that when the Drendel cars went up for auction the 94 went for $75K. I guess that was just the low end of the estimate. It doesn't show up in any of the auction results I can find.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by GG Allin

I Thought I remembered hearing that when the Drendel cars went up for auction the 94 went for $75K. I guess that was just the low end of the estimate. It doesn't show up in any of the auction results I can find.

My friend had first right of refusal. Apparently the car was being looked at by the factory but they honored the agreement and was not part of the auction.

Great story but not mine to tell. $75k would have been nice.

[911boost]

I looked at 94’s back in 2007 when I got my 92 and while they were more, at the time the price difference was nothing like today or at the height of the bubble.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by 911boost

I looked at 94’s back in 2007 when I got my 92 and while they were more, at the time the price difference was nothing like today or at the height of the bubble.

I agree 2007 was a different time. In many ways I miss those days when I enjoyed the car more and worried about it less.

[pingpong]

love this one:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-porsche-turbo-s/

[Cobalt]

^^^ Turbo S either 993 or 964 is an entirely different market.

[pingpong]

JoeyJoeJoJr to answer your question, i driven and owned both, for me 993 is the better car not talking about value but just for pure pleasure, no doubt. Also i personal like the look of the 993 better than the 964 as bumpers are to heavy looking on an a small car but hey they have the more classic look with the headlights and flag mirrors, if you after that. Porsche could not sell 964's and went almost under, and now the idiot Singer look a like crazy trend is getting to an end prices will come down.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by pingpong

JoeyJoeJoJr to answer your question, i driven and owned both, for me 993 is the better car not talking about value but just for pure pleasure, no doubt. Also i personal like the look of the 993 better than the 964 as bumpers are to heavy looking on an a small car but hey they have the more classic look with the headlights and flag mirrors, if you after that. Porsche could not sell 964's and went almost under, and now the idiot Singer look a like crazy trend is getting to an end prices will come down.

I have to disagree regarding values. I help a lot of people look for clean 964's and they are very hard to find. Currently 964 coupes are commanding a premium over comparable 993 Coupes and turbo 3.3's are about the same as 993TT's. Recently a clean 964 C4 sold for $64k all in on BaT with 139k miles. There are just too few and IMO that will keep pricing at least where it is for a long time to come although the junk cars will drop to where they belong in the air-cooled food chain. We are already seeing a lot of restorations which is a sign people still want them.

These are subjective comments and Porsche couldn't sell cars in the early 90's for many reasons. Many blame it on the bumpers but the fact is the price was just too high the economy was failing and people were bitten by the SUV bug in the states. The reduced pricing of the 993 helped but it took a while for people to warm up to them. The 993 drives much more like my 928 much more GT than the 964. If you are into that. Both good cars as similar as they are different.

[pingpong]

Cobalt i respect your opinion, i like 964, as i do SC and 3.2 G50 is better again, so is 993 over 964. Please don't take your 964 religion to personal, go to Rennlist and nobody agrees with you. I like both, but in the end, i prefer as most who own both the 993. And please don't compare 993 with 928, it just silly. Same boring arguments from air cooled nuts against 996, it all fall flats on one's face in the end. Go Porsche 911 go & enjoy.

[Cobalt]

Sorry but to say one is better is IMO a personal preference and a subjective comment. Better at what and in what way? I drive and work on both the 993 has a lot of nice improvements mechanically but IMO a lot of the feel is engineered out of the car. The looks are subjective and if you don't believe the 993 feel has similarities to my 928 (more GT feeling) I offer you time behind the wheel of my GTS and you will see what I mean.

I would also disagree the 3.2 is better than an SC. IMO the throttle response of an SC is better than a 3.2. These cars are all different yet similar each offering a unique experience but to say one is better is subjective. We may like one better but they are all good in their own way.

I just drove a 991.2 and a new 992 on track and yes the 992 is faster and more capable than the 991.2 did it make it a better car? Maybe on paper but IMO the 992 is so dumbed down at this point it has removed all the thrill and excitement out of the experience and to me that is not better. I walked away impressed by the 992 although I preferred the feel of the 991 better and IMO wouldn't buy either.

I find that what the average 993 owner likes about the 993 over a 964 to me is everything that makes the 964 a better car for me.

[pingpong]

fair and well said its a personal feel for sure. Except SC v.s 3.2 G50 and the 928 GTS sorry different animal although a beauty, anyway thanks for your time.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by pingpong

fair and well said its a personal feel for sure. Except SC v.s 3.2 G50 and the 928 GTS sorry different animal although a beauty, anyway thanks for your time.

You didn't mention the 3.2 G50

[pingpong]

yes i did, but i give up. No hard better feeling just feeling better.

[Cobalt]

I see you did. My bad.