VIN-swapped SC on BAT

[techweenie]

Amazing, but even though BAT previously cancelled an auction because of a VIN swap, this one seems to be ongoing.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/backdated-1981-porsche-911-14/

It's an SC with the chassis stamp panel from a 72 welded in, plus the alu front panel and a-pillar tags. (no mention of production number stamping or other IDs)

The original builder (not the seller) went so far as to add the oil filler cup and flap on the right quarter -- but there's no tank there. The original SC tank remains.

Call it a bitsa or a frankenstein's monster... but bidders are calling it a $128K car(!)

The mind boggles.

[Ayles]

I am pretty sure this will end up with someone more invested in instagram likes than what the car is made of.

[High Hope]

It is a puzzle. I thought that BaT got all cutesy about never stating or confirming facts but rather just saying "the owners states that the engine was rebuilt..." or "...the color is red, per the owner." This business about changed VINs, which is the second or third time I've seen it on BaT, is bizarre. I would think that for the few times these cars have popped up wouldn't be worth the potential for legal liability, let alone the loss of credibility

[NYNick]

Just happened on a 2002 tii on BaT as well. 2 different Vin's, car went for $33K. It was a gorgeous car.

People don't care if it's nice. This $128K frankenmonster is good looking as well. Kinda like Pamela Anderson. You eyes say yes, but your mind says run for your life!

[vwsamba]

Mind blowing that anyone would invest or bid on that car. I suppose bat is the place for more money than sense types. A junkyard Florida rotten 67 911 sold for $20k! Yesterday

[Jeff Jagusch]

There is some very interesting discussion on BAT, that seems to me to be as heated as any political argument.

I wonder if someone can explain to me how that can be legal, as I understand that modifying a VIN is a felony? I am NOT an attorney but I have been around cars for long enough to know (or at least think I knew) that you cant do that?

If the car were still titled as an SC, I could understand the backdating, but fairly certain that you cant backdate the title under any circumstance?

trying to keep an open mind here

Jeff

[faapgar]

I have seen this a few times in the rusty NE.Back then there were some very rusty cars in the mid 70,s & on.Someone finds a clean roller and installs the VIN from the rotbox.Remember that they had no real value then.I had a 69 car come in that was just mint.10,000 miles on the speedo.It had the 69 drivetrain in that looked like it had a ton of miles.He had bought the roller from a police auction in NYC for $1200.No seats or wheels.It was a 73 and he had someone change the VIN.I upgraded the engine to 2.5 specs from the tired 2.0T.I wonder where that car is today.Not legal for sure.

[manbridge 74]

I thought each states DMV had a percentage amount that you could change out? I mean if you restored some cars by replacing all the rusty areas you’d basically be lowering the good car down onto the VIN tag!

I think the worst is when two cars share the same VIN, like some 73 Carrera RS cars.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

I thought each states DMV had a percentage amount that you could change out? I mean if you restored some cars by replacing all the rusty areas you’d basically be lowering the good car down onto the VIN tag!

I think the worst is when two cars share the same VIN, like some 73 Carrera RS cars.

Isn’t it only a problem if the car you are donating is stolen?
I don’t see the difference between purchasing all new metal and using donor metal so long as the donor isn’t stolen.

[1979-930]

I’ve seen just a pink slip and vin tags sold for hot rod builds that were 100% custom parts. It happens to avoid emissions and registration headaches. I have had the CA DMV inspect and vin verify a vehicle for registration.
The girl that did it the inspection wouldn’t be able to tell the difference if I was pulling the same vin swap game on that car. Some of you are giving state employees too much credit. They are clueless and/or don’t really care.
So for a hot rod build the vin swap doesn’t matter for value and helps with registration in many states.


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[nathanbs]

Yeah this is a tough one for sure. Let’s say you bought a body in white from Porsche back in the days to replace a wrecked or rusted car. Are you really going to take your freshly restored car to highway patrol or the state inspection so they can rivet a generic plate on the door jamb like they would in CA or are you going to “restore” the vin tags onto the car you just spent $150k on? I think the issue I have with this car is it is just illogical. I don’t understand what the hell someone was thinking? Makes zero sense. Then to literally throw good money after bad money to continue upgrading this car is just bonkers. The faux oil door just makes my head spin. The painted gold booster is pimpAlicious

[1979-930]

Ha! Agree there. The time spent on a oil tank door to nowhere is fuking hilarious.


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[Macroni]

Obviously doesn't bother the bidders......

[rlane930]

This would be an interesting car for the new COA process. The hidden production numbers would indicate a 1981 model year with the VIN tags from a 1972. This car even had an 85 mph speedo off the production line. So in California, would this car be exempt from emissions? If so, VIN swaps would be a great way to get around Cali emissions. How can this be legal?

[JMS935]

This auction proves just how much stupidity and irrationality is in this hobby. And that the greater fool’s theory is in full effect, as there are always greater fools to come along after you and bail you out.

These bidders clearly have more dollars than sense. It’ll be interesting to watch the end of this auction to see who has the most dollars with the least amount of sense, as they will clearly be one of the greatest fools in this hobby.

[techweenie]

I wonder if the bidder who offered $123K is praying to be outbid right about now?

[sm70911]

Its disappointing about the oil tank, but overall its competitively priced with many of the recent Porsche 'builders' like the 'G-programme' cars. It has a title i don't see that much difference between the Alan Henderson 70 911s which was 90% re made and this car. Personally I'd love to take this car to a drivers event, Rennsport, Targa Carolina, Hill Country, i bet its a ton of fun.

In value terms we are in a world where people pay insane prices for 'all original low mile' G body cars which don't get driven because to add miles diminishes the value. You couldn't build this car for the 125k price its at now.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by rlane930

This would be an interesting car for the new COA process. The hidden production numbers would indicate a 1981 model year with the VIN tags from a 1972. This car even had an 85 mph speedo off the production line. So in California, would this car be exempt from emissions? If so, VIN swaps would be a great way to get around Cali emissions. How can this be legal?

Legal? Probably not. Do you need to tell DMV, No.
Can you get away with it and register the car as a 70's pre-emissions vehicle with tricks like this, yes.
I have been pulling stunts to get modified vehicles smogged since my first car. It's not that hard. The people checking are not that smart.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

I’ve seen just a pink slip and vin tags sold for hot rod builds that were 100% custom parts. It happens to avoid emissions and registration headaches. I have had the CA DMV inspect and vin verify a vehicle for registration.
The girl that did it the inspection wouldn’t be able to tell the difference if I was pulling the same vin swap game on that car. Some of you are giving state employees too much credit. They are clueless and/or don’t really care.
So for a hot rod build the vin swap doesn’t matter for value and helps with registration in many states.


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Exactly. I don't get what the fuss is about. Everything is stated in the auction. However I don't think selling this car on heavy viewed public website is a great idea. Sell it privately and obviously let the buyer know the deal. You never know, but this one could come back to bite the seller/builder one way or another.

[specialtyoneinc]

$145k