disproportionately high insurance on certain 911 variants

[juanbenae]

my pops recently moved his 67 Chevelle SS from hagerty to Grundy insurance and they were about half the cost so he suggested i look into it. i did and found the same results for my car with grundy being less than half the cost of hagerty for the same agreed upon value and policy specifics/limitations. before pulling the trigger i did some research here on pelican and found that most folks experiencing claims had high marks for grundy with hagerty getting lower marks from those participating. i went ahead and moved on the change to grundy.

with that being the case i spoke with a buddy who has a very, very nice low mileage 993S that he currently has standard coverage with progressive/gieco or the like discussing his lack of a declared value coverage. he too called grundy and found what was noted in the pelican threads i looked over that the 993 variant is significantly more expensive to insure. even with the agreed values being 50k for mine and him looking to 80k coverage his was nearly 3x the cost. say what you will about his car being worth more than 80k, but with that being the case i would have even greater concern having a standard non declared policy with that car.

why do you guys suspect the cost to cover a 993 is so disproportionately high compared to my 75S or pops' SS that is around my $300 a year cost for the same 50k agreed policy? he did not look into hagerty but one might anticipate with what's noted above the cost would be silly high with them. worst part is the car is stored at a vacation home about 30 miles from me up here in the foothills that the community was recently evacuated due to the proximity of wildfire. what gives and any suggestions as to why this is the case?

[Matt Monson]

My 75 targa was triple what my 40th 996 runs, with Progressive.

[Transcon]

I can only speak to my own experience but just this year I left Hagerty after being with them for 15 years. Zero claims and the insurance on my 2 911's more than doubled compared to last year. When I called I was told this was due to California mandating they charge more to insure certain brands (ie Porsche) I will say they were very understanding on the phone when I told them I was canceling my policy and they wish there was more they could do so I cant complain about their customer service. Switched over to American Collectors and have been happy with the service so far. YMMV

[KNS]

^^ So wouldn't American Collectors have a large premium increase for California cars as well?

American Collectors and Hagerty should be comparable if the mandate was true (not doubting what you were told).

Since when does a state (Cali) dictate what insurers should charge for a given make, how is the state involved in the decision making process?

[juanbenae]

my hagerty policy has not increased much in the last 5 years. <$50

[speedster911]

Originally Posted by KNS

^^ So wouldn't American Collectors have a large premium increase for California cars as well?

American Collectors and Hagerty should be comparable if the mandate was true (not doubting what you were told).

Since when does a state (Cali) dictate what insurers should charge for a given make, how is the state involved in the decision making process?

I believe the state insurance commissioners office regulates all rates. Typically an insurance company presents its book of business to a state to justify raising rates, but it does require approval

[Cornerlot]

Grundy will give a significant discount if the car has a historic / collector car license plate. In some states that means 25 years old or more.

[Transcon]

Originally Posted by KNS

^^ So wouldn't American Collectors have a large premium increase for California cars as well?

American Collectors and Hagerty should be comparable if the mandate was true (not doubting what you were told).

Since when does a state (Cali) dictate what insurers should charge for a given make, how is the state involved in the decision making process?

You've got me on that one I wanted to just stay with Haggerty as I have been with them for years but in the end they were just not competitive.

[rw229]

I don't find it suprising at all that a low mileage 993 S costs 3x to insure than a 75. Value, performance, complexity/cost to repair, etc.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by rw229

I don't find it suprising at all that a low mileage 993 S costs 3x to insure than a 75. Value, performance, complexity/cost to repair, etc.

i would agree it's not all that surprising, but 3x for an 80k agreed value vs a 50k agreed value? that was my point and you don't seem to have shed a bit of light on that.

[racer]

Is the 993 used the same way as the 75? Does one have classic/antique plate or limited use in play (say, 2500 miles or less)?

If the 75 has all of these, but the 993 does not, that explains it. Also, the drivers record plays into it.. so if you and pops have no issues but 993 buddy has a stack of tickets/points history could be in play as well.

That's why it always helps to shop around.

[juanbenae]

since the car is stored currently under a non op i suspect he requested the lowest mileage offering from grundy. 75 does not have any collector plates, and was even declared a non matching number, modified car. do not know about his record, but in his late 50's and not really a drug or drink guy i would have to assume those are not factors.

it would also stand to reason the 993 would be harder to steal than our older models.

again, in the couple threads i researched here at pelican others talked about their 993 cost being higher than other cars with like declared values.

[rw229]

Sorry you didn't find that helpful so I will add a bit.

1975 vs. 993 is really apples and oranges and not just because of the car.

Agreed value is not the only criteria that insurers use to determine your rate. In addition to the age, cost to repair and performance (993 is at least +100 hp over the '75), a few things to consider, some are specific to the insured, others are related to regional and national statistics...

Are modernish 993s driven more than a vintage '75s? i.e. more likely to be driven more frequently, farther etc.

Is the historical cost of claims (comprehensive / collision / liability) for 993s higher than the cost of claims for '75s?

Location. Your buddy could live in a zip code that has a higher rate of and/or cost of claims. You mentioned the foothills and fires. Has that area been previously hit by fires and perhaps there were huge losses of homes, cars and possessions?

Financial. Insurance considers your financial responsibility in determination of risk. Bad credit, bankruptcy will make you a higher risk.

Household. Any tickets, accidents? What other people are in the family? Any tickets, accidents? What is their risk? A young person of driving age in the household will raise the risk and thereby the cost for everything.

I'm sure there is more and maybe not all of the above applies to your buddy, but bottom line is insurance companies are in the business of making more money than they pay out. If their algorithms sense risk (for whatever reason), you're going to pay more to compensate.

Originally Posted by juanbenae

i would agree it's not all that surprising, but 3x for an 80k agreed value vs a 50k agreed value? that was my point and you don't seem to have shed a bit of light on that.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by rw229

Sorry you didn't find that helpful so I will add a bit.

1975 vs. 993 is really apples and oranges and not just because of the car.

Agreed value is not the only criteria that insurers use to determine your rate. In addition to the age, cost to repair and performance (993 is at least +100 hp over the '75), a few things to consider, some are specific to the insured, others are related to regional and national statistics...

Are modernish 993s driven more than a vintage '75s? i.e. more likely to be driven more frequently, farther etc.

Is the historical cost of claims (comprehensive / collision / liability) for 993s higher than the cost of claims for '75s?

Location. Your buddy could live in a zip code that has a higher rate of and/or cost of claims. You mentioned the foothills and fires. Has that area been previously hit by fires and perhaps there were huge losses of homes, cars and possessions?

Financial. Insurance considers your financial responsibility in determination of risk. Bad credit, bankruptcy will make you a higher risk.

Household. Any tickets, accidents? What other people are in the family? Any tickets, accidents? What is their risk? A young person of driving age in the household will raise the risk and thereby the cost for everything.

I'm sure there is more and maybe not all of the above applies to your buddy, but bottom line is insurance companies are in the business of making more money than they pay out. If their algorithms sense risk (for whatever reason), you're going to pay more to compensate.

some good points.

better than than the point on pmax's head to be sure.