Buying sight unseen- would you risk it?
 

There is a thread going now in the technical forum, some poor guy bought a 1974 911 on Bring a Trailer that he refers to as a “smoke bomb”. He has a good attitude about it, but the fact remains that he is disappointed in his purchase.

BAT isn’t exactly buying sight unseen, but I’m curious if knowledgeable Porsche folks on this forum would buy a classic Porsche 911 without seeing it in person first?

No

Yep, I’ve bought 3 sight unseen, and was happy with all of them. I had them inspected by a 3rd party, obtained service history documentation from the seller, and got lots of pics. It’s always advisable to put your own eyeballs on a Porsche, but I live in rural Kansas. Not much inventory out here.🤣

Bought 4 cars sight unseen and with due diligence all have exceeded expectations. There's always a risk though. I've looked at plenty of cars that looked great in photos but were turds up close.

No...

Think there’s a decent path to diligencing a car sight unseen, but it doesn’t exist on BaT given the auction format and time pressure which favors the seller. I have time and more patience to diligence the next one and intend to use both.

I would add that I’ve only bought “driver” lever cars, so a blemish, scratch or chip here or there doesn’t bother me. If I was buying a high end, concours lever car, I’d certainly not buy sight unseen.

ive bought plenty sight unseen and sold even more. My partner sold over 200 cars on BAT nearly every one sight unseen.

I’ve bought three cars site unseen. First one was a toss up, I knew it was either going to be a great deal or a bust. Turned out to be a bust but not a bad one. The second one was my current Targa, that one I felt very confident and was not disappointed. Third one was an 06 Mini Cooper JCW which we also still have and I was also not disappointed with it.

If you’re around these cars long enough you get a clear picture of what to look for and what questions/pictures to ask for to establish history. The right pictures, records and carfax can paint a fairly clear picture of a cars past.

Best stuff I ever bought was sight unseen. 78 930, 75 911S, and a bunch of motorcycles. A life lived too cautiously is a life not lived at all.

I’ve gotten burned doing it and done just fine doing it. I trusted a friend of a friend who was supposed to be my eyes on the ground and got screwed. I trusted Macroni and didn’t. I’m more careful these days.

Yes. I've bought three cars sight unseen.

First was my old '96 Infiniti G20t. The variant I wanted was very hard to find so I wasn't going to find one remotely locally. Friend looked at the car for me in person, but the seller did a good job of hiding that the engine had been overheated and I got about two years out of it before I swapped a JDM engine in.

Second was my 911, which I bought from BaT. Seller was active here and had previously listed it here, was super open and honest and I had very high confidence that the car was exactly what I thought it was, which it was.

Third was my Saab, also on BaT. Seller also open and honest, flew to Vancouver to drive it back home and car was as presented.

If There is lots of available information on the car and its history and I get the right vibe from the seller, I'd do it again. The bit about the seller is crucial because you're buying the seller as much as you are buying the car. Also, realism helps. All of my purchases have been driver-level cars and I'm realistic.

If we are talking about a collector or vintage vehicle then absolutely not.

I've gotten surprised in both the good and bad ways. The picts always look great. Generally you can get a good feel for the person by the sound of their voice, and how knowledgeable they are. You can also buy a car in person and then realize it's a big piece of junk.

Very happy with my BaT purchase 5 states away in 2019. Little silver coupe was just as described or even better. Had confidence in the seller after the first few text messages.

I have a couple of times. I bought a 911 from a long time poster on Pelican and didn't really know what I was doing. This was years ago. It was ok but I could have been smarter about it. The inspection was a joke and I should have walked at that point but ultimately it was a good learning experience.

The latest one I was going to go see the car but COVID. I found a 356 that was RNM on BAT. I tracked the seller down through the Registry and this time had a very thorough inspection done at RMG enterprises in Sunnyvale.

The BAT listing was pretty good. Lots of records. Long term CA ownership and black plate car.
The 356 crowd there seemed to approve. The inspection went well. I cancelled two trips to go see it and just decided to rely on RMG and if I really didn't like it could walk away when I drug my wife down to pick it up.

We made the trip and the car was and has been better than I was expecting. The 911 is long gone, of course sold way too cheap back in 2010 or so. I won't sell the 356.

I have also bought three cars without seeing them first, including my 1972 911T. All good experiences. But I am a super lucky guy. And I had all of the cars inspected by shops of my choice.

Its always a roll of the dice if you buy sight unseen. If you go into it knowing the risks you're usually fine, unless the seller is a real jerk. I had one one time, the seller has since switched his name 3-4 times and is banned from here and most other forums, I told him I didn't need to import rust to NY, we have plenty. He said there was some bubbling on the doors but nothing serious. The car arrived and the pedals were hanging in mid air. I called the seller and he said, "Look, the car photograph's really well, just throw it on ebay, you'll do fine."
My response was, "So you want me to do to the next guy, what you did to me?"
He said, "Look bro, I'm giving you an out here."

I didn't take his advice, I resold the car at a loss, but like I said he has since changed names multiple times and is banned from most platforms, a real piece of work.

---Adam

I would but I’m cheap and slow so by the time I’m ready to do something they’re gone. I can move a lot faster on a local car so probability favors something nearby.

I bought two 911 cars unseen. Just assume there is more wrong with it than they are disclosing and pay accordingly. Once you receive it, fix/change what bothers you and move on - enjoy it. It’s all the over thinking that will make you unhappy.

I purchased an E30 M3 from a former BMW driving instructor. I had it inspected by a great shop in the area. It was a great car and a good buy.

I purchased a 2006 Cayman S sight-unseen after having it inspected by a good local shop for a few hundred bucks. Great car, good buy.

I bought my "dream" '89 widebody backdate 911 coupe on BaT after reading a lot about the seller and deciding to trust him. Upon delivery I found it had been smashed in the front and poorly repaired. I lost like $25k on that car when all was said and done. I can still taste that one.

That was too much of a lesson for me...When I buy, I drive it myself or I have a good shop scrutinize it. If neither is possible for some reason, I'm out.

Yes bought two early 911s sight unseen. Both needed more work than anticipated, thankfully there really is nothing on a Porsche that can not be refreshed or restored to new.

From Pelican:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1608637928.jpg

After Restoration:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1608638892.jpg


From Pelican:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1608637987.jpg

After sorting:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1608638018.jpg

Yes, relied on professional PPI. Car was described perfectly.

I have closed deals from afar, pending personal inspection and picked them up in person. BAT is a giant used car lot in the sky. I have seen some really nice, honest cars and some artistic presentations of crap.

I bought my 964 sight unseen, but with a PPI. The car turned out better than expected s far as drivetrain and engine. The interior was not as nice as the pictures let on, but I was planning an RS interior anyway.

Purchased my 89 turbo from the other side of the country with a PPI. I was happy with sale.

Purchased my 87 turbo unseen as well. This car was in pieces. No PPI. The seller was not sure what parts he had, everything was in boxes and a few crates. He had a lot of parts he did not tell me about.

PPI every time.

Good to see that 27.12 percent still only buy " No way without seeing it first " as that is the only way I do business for the last decades. Learned this is the best way in many cases to get what it should be worth and get the right buyer for what it really is.
Last realization was a rare color 78 930 ( see photos ) a doc wanted but after the price was set he decided that his surgery schedule would not allow it so I cancelled the deal. I referred him to a friend who had a near perfect similar color 79 930. After he got the car shipped to him he complained about a small touch up ( which may have happened in transit when new ) as the original owner had no idea and the buyer demanded a partial refund as not perfect original paint everywhere. Had he come to inspect in person and noticed it my friend would not have had to deal with the trauma. lesson learned.
BTW I still have my unrestored recent PCA show winning radio delete 1978 Mocha black 930 and it is worth much more now than then, additionally I have enjoyed using it in the meantime.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1609184728.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1609184728.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1609184728.JPG

[QUOTE=voitureltd;11158092]Good to see that 27.12 percent still only buy " No way without seeing it first " as that is the only way I do business for the last decades. Learned this is the best way in many cases to get what it should be worth and get the right buyer for what it really is.
Last realization was a rare color 78 930 ( see photos ) a doc wanted but after the price was set he decided that his surgery schedule would not allow it so I cancelled the deal. I referred him to a friend who had a near perfect similar color 79 930. After he got the car shipped to him he complained about a small touch up ( which must have happened in transit when new ) as the original owner had no idea and the buyer demanded a partial refund as not perfect original paint everywhere. Had he come to inspect in person and noticed it my friend would not have had to deal with the trauma. lesson learned.
BTW I still have my unrestored recent PCA show winning radio delete 1978 Mocha black 930 and it is worth much more now than then, additionally I have enjoyed using it in the meantime.

This is such an "old school" way of buying classic 911s. It doesn't have to be this way. Who in the heck has time to drive or fly hours on end to check out a car in person? The internet has made it a much smaller and simplified world for reliably vetting a car. Because of the many Porsche forums and PCA, I have made dozens of connections with people throughout the country that I trust to put eyeballs on a car. If the car passes the initial snuff, then I next seek out a reliable third party shop to do a PPI. And again, the shop I choose is based on reliable recommendations by connections I have in that area. It's not too complicated. I live in Kansas, so there is really and rarely nothing within a 4 hour drive that I can inspect myself. I've bought and also sold(sight unseen) five classic 911s using this vetting process. Absolutely no regrets.

This is such an "old school" way of buying classic 911s. It doesn't have to be this way. Who in the heck has time to drive or fly hours on end to check out a car in person? The internet has made it a much smaller and simplified world for reliably vetting a car. Because of the many Porsche forums and PCA, I have made dozens of connections with people throughout the country that I trust to put eyeballs on a car. If the car passes the initial snuff, then I next seek out a reliable third party shop to do a PPI. And again, the shop I choose is based on reliable recommendations by connections I have in that area. It's not too complicated. I live in Kansas, so there is really and rarely nothing within a 4 hour drive that I can inspect myself. I've bought and also sold(sight unseen) five classic 911s using this vetting process. Absolutely no regrets.[/QUOTE]


The only 73RS I ever bought was entirely sight unseen and in early 2000s that was my only option. It took some balls but it worked out well. I was on a trip home to US when my broker friend called me on the car from Japan. I kept telling him to look at the VIN on the windscreen post, not knowing then that there wasn't one there as he kept saying over the phone. He affirmed over again that it was original so I just pulled the trigger then and there. No guts no glory, car #101.

Actually I have bought many sight unseen over the last 4 decades. Almost always I have asked and gotten the right answers, photos and records to make a decision. Selling in person ( I only plan to sell one of my 930's a year for around 8 years anyway ) for me is easier than getting one ready for photo shoot ( cleaning the underside etc ) even if I can decide which one.

I have many wasted buying trips in the past but still enjoyed some of them.

You're right, it is old school way, but that is the way it use to be and the way I like best. Summer time is really nice here especially with Road America nearby for a personal look, drive etc. No way to test drive with weather as it is at least half the year anyway.