Definition of "Rust-Free?"

[OK-944]

Gotta say this...that I see quite a few ads for "rust-free" cars - that obviously feature (sometimes significant) rust. What gives?

Yeah...I know that there are things like carpet pad remnants that can look like rust - but I'm talking actual rust - sometimes involving seams/welds.

I also think that surface-rust should should just be called what it is...surface rust. Again...what gives?

[blucille]

it's a regional thing. A northeast "rust free" car is nothing like a "rust free" California car.

[Matt Monson]

You can't stick a screwdriver through it.

[SKM]

I recall reading a comment by attorney John Deandreas, author of Legal Files in Sports Car Market Magazine, that no seller should ever claim their old car is "rust-free". It just can't be true in the strictest sense.

As with most everything on these old cars there is a continuum of condition from too far gone to true concours and everything in between.

Jim Schrager who wrote on Porsches for SCM once told me "once a rusty 911, always a rusty 911".

To his point, I've seen a beautifully restored '69 911 by a well-regarded expert begin to show rust within just a few years after the restoration perhaps due to the owner driving it in both dry and rainy weather. A friend who was a tech at a Porsche dealer when long hoods were new said some showed rust within the first few year. Cars that are kept completely dry - not even washed - seem to remain rust free longer than cars that get wet over and over.

[jacksonm]

"Rust-free" but tetanus shot advised.

[juanbenae]

i run in the jeep community now and I cannot believe what people are defining as an amount of rust that is acceptable. these are for the most part the 87 thru 95 YJ variety im seeing.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by SKM

I recall reading a comment by attorney John Deandreas, author of Legal Files in Sports Car Market Magazine, that no seller should ever claim their old car is "rust-free". It just can't be true in the strictest sense.

As with most everything on these old cars there is a continuum of condition from too far gone to true concours and everything in between.

Jim Schrager who wrote on Porsches for SCM once told me "once a rusty 911, always a rusty 911".

To his point, I've seen a beautifully restored '69 911 by a well-regarded expert begin to show rust within just a few years after the restoration perhaps due to the owner driving it in both dry and rainy weather. A friend who was a tech at a Porsche dealer when long hoods were new said some showed rust within the first few year. Cars that are kept completely dry - not even washed - seem to remain rust free longer than cars that get wet over and over.

My opinion is that a lot of cars get blasted and refinished, but all the seams and areas inaccessible to the blast media, continue to rust. Lot's of modern product on the outside but inside it's still 50 year old rusty metal. It's like trying to wash your hands while making a fist. It's just a matter of time. Less if you live in a humid area.

[ab1752]

About 10 years ago I bought a "rust free" 240Z...$35,000 later (at 8 year ago prices) it mostly is. The point around lapped seams is true, and while the Z still appears rust free, those cars are nothing compared to a 911s ability to hide rust. The Zs wear their rust marks loud and proud. People, me included, fall for the "galvanized" tale of "never gonna rust" in the G body cars. In the end, who cares just go in with eyes wide open.

[DaytonaCoupe66]

People's standards for interpreting excellent, good, not bad, poor, or trashed vary widely not only for paint/rust, but for every other aspect of cars and equipment. If your standards are high, it's not often that you'll find something for sale where the seller shares your interpretation, or fully discloses proactively up front.

[Matt Monson]

Is this the car that triggered this thread?

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/1137611-1975-porsche-914-rust-free-project.html

[2.7RS]

It means

"The Rust is Free"

[OK-944]

Matt...yep - but I don't mean to single that seller out - as this is but one of a huge number of these "rust-free" ads I've seen.

Edit: I do note that in the second sentence of that ad the seller does admit to a "small amount" of surface rust, and a few holes in the battery tray, with no signs of any later edits.

But while I feel somewhat apologetic, I do feel that the presence of this rust has been somewhat understated. Then again, open to interpretation I guess.

[Matt Monson]

The thing about 914s is that they rust inside out. I’d really want to see under the rocker covers, along other things. And I’d poke a screwdriver right through that rear trunk.

[911heaven]

Rust must be maintained where ever it may be, surface or beneath as it shows it's ugly head. Driving a car oils it mechanically. Maintaining a car is more involved like going through it and nipping rust in the bud before it gets worse i.e. stop it in it's tracks. My 69E taught me that!

As kids we used to say -- Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, if it weren't for women our wienies would rust. That is sort of a mechanical oiled thought, not a thorough comprehensive thought. I wonder if this movie in the making called Rust will ever get to market...?

[NYNick]

Back in the 60's and 70's, at least in my neck of the woods, every car rusted, some faster than others. I seem to remember the Japanese and German cars had a special affinity to rusting very quickly, and we used to say the Japanese cars were made out of old Budweiser cans.

But nobody really took care of cars back then. We parked them outside, drove them in the snow and used them as transportation, mostly. Who had a second car?

I personally watched 2 Pontiacs, 2 Porsche 912's and a Volkswagen Beetle literally rust before my eyes within 3-4 years of their production. Why? Because we used them year round (snow tires!) and parked them outside in the northeast.

I don't care what it is or where its been: if it's 40 plus years old, check every inch carefully....it's probably there somewhere.

[Unobtanium-inc]

The last time I used that term when selling a car was a long time ago. It was a 70 911S Targa, that looked "rust free", so I said that. It sold to a guy in the UK whose mechanic put it up on the lift, took a die grinder to the whole underside and found 3 dime sized holes under the sway bar mount. Mind you it was covered by undercoating and the sway bar before this. The mechanic said the car should be "cut up for spares".

I offered several thousand dollars back to properly repair the small area. He said his guy wanted way more than that, he wanted half his money back. I suggested he get a new "guy" because this one wanted the car for cheap, or to rake him for repairs, neither of which was cool.

I've never again called a car "rust free".

---Adam

[Matt Monson]

The irony being it was likely the most rust free old 911 in the whole UK.

[matt930s]

Love that color.

Probably worth 10x today...

[speedster911]

Interesting discussion as the 914 for sale triggered my what the heck with the no rust comments.

Even newer east coast cars with the claim of never driven in the snow or rain - I have found most of the underside fasteners rusted or starting to rust on a 4-5 year old car.

MM's stick a screw driver through it is a valid point but rust on battery tray or spots in trunk causes an educated buyer to question what is lurking where you cannot see - rust is rust.

[grendiers]

My rust free 1989 944 turbo, they do exist!