993 Prices

creator8 · 10-11-2006, 05:45 PM

I'm in the market for a 96-98 993. I'm particularly interested in a Targa or S model and want a Tiptronic. According to Kelley Blue Book the retail (dealer) price for an "Excellent" 97 S w/ 40k miles or so is $38k yet all I'm seeing is cars on the market for $50k plus. Targas are about the same KBB valuation but cars are more realistically priced around $40k.

Most of the S cars I've seen advertised for the "premium" prices have been on the market for a while and unless a Targa is particularly attractive (low miles/CA car) they don't seem to be moving either. Yet the sellers are sticking hard to these prices.

I don't get it. Any thoughts?

racer · 10-11-2006, 06:32 PM

When it comes to Porsche pricing, throw away KBB or NADA guides.

When it comes to 993 prices, thow away KBB or NADA guides.

Now that your bookshelf is clear, you should consult "excellence" or the Porshe market letter to get more reealistic prices. Or even perform your own "searches" on Autotrader or E-bay.

As you should know, the 993 was the last of the aircooled (and perhaps real?) 911s. As such, they command a premium.

Next. Targas. Comparitively small production run. Tips even more rare (in general, although I am not sure what the tip/non-tip production numbers are)

Next: S. The widebody. Arguably the best looking of the 993 bodies. Whether 2 or 4wd, "S" cost more than non S's.

I have a friend selling his '98 C2S. $52,500 and its yours. I have another friend with a 95 993. non s. Similar mileage and condition as the "S" mentioned. The earlier non S is $35K ish.

Exclusivity has a price!

Also realize that most owners of these cars are owners of multiple Porsches, or at the least, another premium car. They love the marque. Care for the car, and rarely need to "sell quickly", unless its to get another Porsche.

jkarolyi · 10-12-2006, 09:33 AM

Yep. KBB is off on 993s and any older Porsche. I find KBB Private Party Value accurate regarding newer cars (say 8 years or newer) but KBB gets less accurate as the cars get older.

Since most sales of older vehicles are not reported often enough to get good data, they use fixed depreciation to figure their prices based on sales of "similar type" vehicles. So prices of 1996-98 Mercedes SLs and other "similarly priced when new" competitors affect KBB price too. The 993 will always be sought after and will bottom out on their depreciation soon if not already.

BTW: Here's a 40,000 mile beauty near you for your $39,000:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=307223

creator8 · 10-12-2006, 02:17 PM

I don't disagree with you on the whole Porsche "thing". I've been an owner of both new and old cars for the last few years. But, the thing is, having been keeping an eye on the market for a few months and now getting serious about buying for the last couple of weeks, I'm pretty familiar with the cars for sale all over the country.

I've been watching eBay, Autotrader, Rennlist, PCA Mart, cars.com, here and the sites of the various Porsche specialist dealers so I've got a good handle on the market. Bottom line is the 2S and 4S 993s that are priced above $45k are not moving. The same cars continue to be for sale at prices that are obviously too high. Whenever an S car comes up for around $40k it does sell. I missed a 40k mile 2S Tip California for $37k just a couple of days ago. It was on Autotrader for maybe 5 minutes.

Targas above $40k aren't moving either. While rare, I think there's a pretty small audience for them. They have some quirks and you either want one or don't. Though I want a Tip for my own reasons, I also think that a Tip even if its rarer that a 6spd is less desirable for most Porsche buyers and puts the value down.

Sure, a 10k mile 1 owner no story 2S for $60k is probably the right price, but there aren't that many buyers in that market. At $60k there's a lot of alternatives, especially when factor in lease deals and the like. The problem is that sellers with 40-50k cars with some wear and maybe a story or two seem to think their cars are worth close to the same. Just not so!

You can feed all the bumf about how special and rare these cars are but Supply and Demand as a theory is a law and even Porsches aren't above that law. Something will give I'm sure.

racer · 10-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Supply and demand is fine. But it would appear the folks that are asking 50's can also 1) afford to hold them if the don't sell or 2) can afford to buy additional expensive cars with no financial worries. The guys who market them at 40K do so to ensure a quick sale to move onto the next big thing (car, investment etc).

I also agree that at $50-60K they are overpriced for what they are... 10 year old cars that only cost 60-80K when new.

A seller will almost always choose to price at the high side of the market and the buyer will always choose the low end. Asking price doesn't always translate into "sold" price.

However, why is it you want a 993? you even mention that there are many alternatives out there, both used and new for the same money that the "S" guys want.

creator8 · 10-13-2006, 08:53 AM

I want a 993 because I want a 993. I've owned a 996--great car but didn't quite light my fire. I've had a few early cars and am very much into them--have a 72 RS rep in the garage that is a keeper. But I want a car I can use as a daily driver that has their same spirit and feel which the 993 certainly has. My daily driving consists of a sub half hour commute in city traffic. I also want something I stuff my young kids in the back once in a while. We have other transport in the family for the more practical needs so a really good 993 fits well with what I want.

I like the Targas for their lines and think that the roof is a neat trick. My budget is around $40k. Yes the 996 is probably a "better" car and good ones are now hitting that number but they don't have that same "911" vibe. Plus where I live they are almost as ubiquitous as Honda Civics. It looks like I've found a car now--a 98 Targa Tip with less than 20k at the top end of my price range. Subject to inspection I'll probably pull the trigger on it.

umfan866 · umfan866's Garage

Steve,

I don't know if you saw it, but this month's Excellence Magazine (the one with a white Cayman on the front) has an extensive artice on 993s (different from the market update, which hardly changes from year to year).

It seems that the 993's can vary quite a bit in price, if you are willing to go for a higher-mileage one you can save considerably. I am considering a higher-mileage 993 as an alternative to a really nice 1987-1989 Carrera 3.2/G-50; I might just be able to just squeak into 993 territory.

I was going to send you a PM with some of the sites I use to search cars, and ask if you might be interested in checking out a local (LA) 993 car for me. I notice your callsign cannot accept PM's - can you email me at mhecht <atsign> sonic.net?

Thks, Marvin.

anthony · 10-14-2006, 04:41 PM

If I were you, I'd just settle for a non-S version. A $10-15K premium for the S option just isn't worth the money.

uberklasse · uberklasse's Garage

tip 993's will usually be lower priced than manual counterparts. 993 prices in So Cal have and will remain strong IMO. I too have been tracking them for a while and have basically given up. I would much rather spend half the money for an 87-89 911!

CWeber911 · 10-14-2006, 08:28 PM

Don't give up on a reasonable 993. I purchased last week a 95 Cab 6 speed, red/black flawless condition for $24K. Might have to live with higher miles as I did, 89K.
After owning 50+ 911,s over the years (yes I am a flipper) I must say its the best driving 911 I have ever owned, including my 996
Cal W.

uberklasse · uberklasse's Garage

I won't....I am a lot like you in that I have owned a number of 911's and am always looking for the next one.

Sounds like a good price for a local one if everything checked out well....

umfan866 · umfan866's Garage

The 1995's seem to be a little cheaper, due to the lower horse power and 1st year status. I'm wondering if they can be chipped better, due to lack of OBD. I'm considering a 1995 with 125k miles, with recent $6k rebuild; owner is firm at $23.5k. Has some nice 17's, but the interior has a small dash crack and has some stains according to the owner. The owner says its strong running and has a lot more power than the 87-89s which he referred to as "slower, more like a modifed VW" (little bit of attitude there). The problem I'm having is that while Excellence says a 95 is in the 20's, KBB once again is off, showing high teens. So that means that if I want to secure a loan based on even high KBB value, I'm SOL.

uberklasse · uberklasse's Garage

I had a '95 and it was a great car....didn't notice the lack of the extra hp and that it didn't have varioram. 23.5 seems decent, but not a smokin dea by any means.
Point of reference, I bought mine for 28k and sold for 29k last year...it had 68k miles, decent options and color combo, but probably needed a clutch.

911teo · 10-16-2006, 09:02 AM

I bought my 95 with 57k miles for 31k 6 months ago and I think that was a good price for what I got.

I agree that people with "S" midels asking $12-15k are a bit optimistic. There is a C4S in my town that has been on sale for 1 year.
Having said that I concur with what someone said before that these individuals do not need to sell their cars quickly.

For example if I wanted to sell my car I would not sell it for under 30k. And I would be prepared to wait if it didn't go quickly.

creator8 · 10-16-2006, 04:32 PM

I finally found a car. A low mile (20k) 98 White over Black Targa Tip. Price was at top end of my range but seems to be worth it as its in basically new condition. Very much looking forward to taking delivery.

Funnily enough, just this week I've been noticing a bunch of S cars now coming on the market at more sane prices. I guess the market is correcting!

Appreciate all the comments.

umfan866 · umfan866's Garage

Steve,

Congrats! Hey now that you've found your car, what sites did you search for to find a 993?

creator8 · 10-16-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by umfan866
Steve,

Congrats! Hey now that you've found your car, what sites did you search for to find a 993?

Pretty much all as I stated above: kbb.com, autotrader.com, eBay, rennlist, here of course, dupont registry, PCA, a bunch of specialist dealers one of which came through. I put the word out to a few of these guys and they kept me updated on cars coming in so I got a look before they were marketed. Once the car lands and with a satisfactory conclusion to the process I'll be happy to spread the word, good or bad on who I got the car from.

Just got to keep trolling the sites and spreading the search. KBB and Autotrader seems to turn up new cars every day.

Good luck w/ your search.