About what is this Black 87 Carrera Worth

[umfan866]

1987 Carrera 911 3.2 G-50 with 159k miles

Features
* Black Exterior - excellent paint, no body dings
* Tan "Full Leather" Interior, clean
* 5 speed manul G-50 tranny
* 2-3 previous owners, well maintained

Overall condition (as described by seller)
* Paint is in excellent condition - No body dings
* A few minor cracks in the dash (not noticeable)
* PPI & smog done 1 year ago and everything was fine

Maintenance
* Top end rebuilt at 139k - Runs very strong
(including valve guides and clutch fork shaft update)
* new rear axles and boots
* new oil return lines
* new headlight/fog light lenses and bulbs
* new AC hoses ($600 was spent) - A/C blows cold
-this was done as a result of the last PPI

Mods
* 951 Turbo front brake upgrade
(cross drilled/vented rotors in front and back)
* 930 steering wheel (original available )
* Eclipse HU w/ MB quartz front speakers
& custom built sub box behind front seats
* Dual out Fabspeed exhaust
- installed recently, note right rear of valence was
cut in the rear for installation/fitment done by a shop
- bypass not installed so as to not make it too noisy
* New C2 Turbo wheels (17") with Potenza SO3's (<1k on them)
- original Fuchs not available, had gold BBS wheel prior to that
* Front lip spoiler (recently installed - not in pictures)








I am deliberately not saying what the seller is asking right now, because I want to get responses first. Don't worry I will reveal the asking price. I am going to see this car on Thursday.

This car would get used by me as a daily driver to work on most days (<3 miles) and on weekend fun drives with the family (2 kids under 5). I would also put down about 3-4k and finance the rest. My wife would rather see me get a well sorted out car (esp with top-end done) and have a car payment than buy a beater or non-sorted out car and pay in repairs and hassle. In terms of color my first choice would be red/black, then black/black but black/tan is OK (probably a little harder to keep clean).

Also, do you think this car would hold its value (not drop much) over time? Or with 993's and early boxter's coming down perhaps Carreras will go down into what was SC territory..

[jwilberdog]

19-21k IMO

[deanslist.us]

My opinions:

$19,000 or less due to mileage.

Looks to be in fantastic condition. One great point that I haven't seen brought up in any of these forums is that everyone searches for a "recent top end" but doesn't really care who did the work, just so long as it was done...who is to say that it was done right? I would rather buy one at a slightly lower price and handle the top end on my own, so that I know for a fact it will be done right. Anybody think about this before?

I don't know, when I searched for 80's models Carreras, I always veered from ones that had any motor/trans work done. Someone that brags by advertising "recent top end" may be trying to get rid of one that wasn't done correctly and no longer want the headache. I wanted ones that didn't have the work done so I never had to worry about it having been abused to that point of needing this work done in the first place.

Additionally, I constantly hear about the huge advantage of the G50 transmission over the 915. I have personally driven both (many times) and honestly they feel the same to me. My buddy's 87 has problems with a clunking noise in his trans that comes and goes (for the past year). My experience with my last two P-cars and their 915 trannies have been absolutely fine (3 and 4 years strong). I don't know why people hex these transmissions so much and devalue the whole car just because of the tranny.

Not to hijack the thread but these seemed like valid points in justifying the assumed price I would label on this car.

[imcarthur]

Originally posted by deanslist.us
$19,000 or less due to mileage.

Agreed. Although the top end 20K miles ago is not necessarily a bad thing.

Ian

[umfan866]

OK the seller sought me out from my posts on one of the boards, and told me 19.8k but on the phone, said about 19k and if I see and like the car, him and I negotiate from there.

He only bought it a year ago himself, and he put the wheels for 3k on, and the muffler for an unknown amount on. He is now selling it through a consignment shop and they are asking about 23-24k for the car to cover their commission so that he can still get about 19k ( not sure how it works).

I called a credit union about financing and they asked me the options on the car etc and told me the according to their "businesss " Kelley Blue Book computer (somehow different than the public www.kbb.com site) the KBB value is 14,680 (high - retail) and low 12,500 (low). The can only finance up to high KBB as it comes out in their computer, and to make matters worse their auto loans at 6.50% for 84 months only apply to cars that are 7 years old or less. Some exceptions are made but I'd have to call back in the morning. Frankly regardless of what
"Excellence" or others say, banks are only concerned with what they could "really" sell this car for and it sounds like about 15k. I'll have to call to clarify. If anybody knows any sites that specialize in the financing of older Porsche's and value the car more according to what its worth (again a subjective issue once you hit the real world and real money)..let me know.

thks Marv

[baldman]

Banks are notoriously low on value estimates for used car loans. It isn't so much how much they can "really" get for the car if you default, it's how much they can sell the car for in the least amount of time possible.

[racer]

Does it make sense to borrow $$ on a nearly 20 year old car whose value will only depreciate? How long would your loan be? NOTHING about Porsche ownership is cheap/inexpensive.

How would you pay for a new Clutch or transmission if it should fail for any reason in the next year or so? Those are $1000-3000 repair bills if done at a reputable shop.

Why the 951 front brake upgrade?

At 160K miles, maybe a 20 year old car should only be worth $15-17K?

Driving it <3 miles per day to work? the car will hardly have a chance to warm its massive oil supply. Figure changing the oil frequently.. at at least $50 for the oil alone.

I am suprised those wheels cost $3k. They must have a genuine Porsche part number. Not really my style. I prefer 16" Fuchs on cars of this vintage. Heck, you might "make" money by selling them off and locating some "stock" wheels instead

For similar or less money I have seen several 964's in equal condition be sold quickly. They always say, buy the newest model you can afford!

[umfan866]

I saw this car in person the other day. Still need to go drive it.

Positives
-The exterior is as good or better than the photos.
-Blows COLD FRIGGING A/C everywhere, instantly
-The wheels ARE Porsche wheels just from a c2 they
are nice not chrome but a subtle grey
-Fabspeed exhaust looks/sounds good, and they did a
professional job cutting the valence on the right rear
-Owner put a new OEM front spoiler on which looks quite
good in the photos
-The rubber looks fresh on this car

Neutral
-Lots of stereo equipment, Eclipse HU, amp, and custom woofer
box. But the amp is sitting under passenger side seat (can see
it when you pull the seat forward) and the woofer box reduces
rear legroom (I have small kids may not be an issue for others)

Negatives
-The carrera badge is off the trunklid and needs to be bought
and re-attached. Thin outline of the lettering still visible.
-The headliner is stitched up on both ends a little bit where the
zipper is, it must have ripped where the zipper starts/ends. To
make it perfect, would need new headliner.
-Dash has some major vertical cracks in the center. Not warped,
but cracked. PO filled them in with some black paint and filler
so they wont get worse, but new dash costs a lot (1k?)
-Seats need reconditioning, they are not worn through and livable
but to make it A1 needs a professional rejuvator job done now
to prevent them getting worse.
-Asked the current owner who has had the car for a year and he acknowledged these issues and said they were issues for him too, its just that he thought the money was better spent on the wheels, exhaust, and spoiler (ie exterior) which he personalized
to his liking (and of course which IS nice).

Did not have time to drive it--need to go back to do that. My feeling
is that at 19k he is quite high, despite the rebuild and nice touches.

[cbeers]

Pretty damn similar to mine that I bought a little over two years ago. Mine of course is a red/tan and black car, but same miles, top end and clutch done etc.

I have nothing but good times with it. Only real failure was the fuel pump. I keep up on maintaining it and it runs like a champ. 5-8 AX events a year, 4 track days last year, now up to 185k and still driving daily.

I paid $15k, added 16/7/8 Fuchs, turbo tie rods, bilsteins, strut bar, body braces, Elephant spring plate bushings(bearings), rebuilt the brake system (new rotors, lines, fluid, pads, rebuilt calipers), fixed a cam line, dropped in new to me seats and am just about done collecting black interior bits to make the change to full black.

As you can see, MOST of that stuff is preference.

I don't know that I could get $15k for mine.


-Chris