Seller's dramas...what gives? (long rant)

[konish]

Unbelievable...

The drama of it all. I've been actively looking for a nice SC or Carrera with an eye towards 964s (coupes) within my budget of about $20K. So far, I've either received little to no feedback from potential sellers even asking very topical questions. Also, buying in Oklahoma and surrounding parts can be a bit dodgy. There isn't the volume of cars so the pickin's get pretty scarce. The cars you do find tend to be a little ragged out and seemingly VERY high priced. Take a look at the FS ads for the surrounding area and you'll see what I mean. Anywho, so far:

I had made a verbal deal with a guy for a *very* nice SC. A fairly known car that looked great and from a regular here on the forum. Great. So far, so good. Anyway, as per the seller's request, I jumped through a bunch of hoops to get my bank (no local branch, so everything is done over the phone, fax, mail, etc) to cut a cashiers check and mail it to me. I even bought a plane ticket to get the car.

Three days before my departure, dude calls me and says the deal is off. Truth be told, I understand seller's remorse, and I wasn't holding that against him. However, I then mention that I just spent $340 on a plane ticket that I bought on good faith and he says that he'll refund half. Oh boy. I very calmly asked why I should be out $170 just to give him the luxury of backing out of the deal. So 'ol boy gets pretty angry and his whole tone from Mr. nice-guy changes to Mr. Hyde. He did come through though and refunded my money via Paypal.

Anyway, I'm still jumping through hoops with my bank to void the cashier's check by sending it back with some forms to cancel the loan. The kicker is I can either ask for another loan concurrently (obviously not preferable), or I have to wait until the paperwork is processed to request another loan. All this becasue some guy backed out of a good faith deal...next time, I'll be more careful if I find an out of state car.

So anyway, I was checking out the local autotrader, and come across a pretty clean 964 with low miles. White, tip (not preferable) and pretty nice overall. So I call this cat up and ask if he had time to discuss the car a bit. The guy was absolutely clueless about the mechanical nature of 911's in general. At first I thought he was putting on a "dumb act", but the more we discussed the more evident it became that it wasn't an act. Not a dumb guy, but totally clueless about the car.

After about 20 minutes of talking about the car, I asked the seller if I could come see the car. He says fine as long it's after 6:30pm. So I called at 6:40 to get his address and he tells me that it would not be a good time because he needed to get dinner for his kids.

It's not that I have a problem with any of that except for the fact that he told me it was okay to come up not even 3 hours earlier. I mean, I have kids and dinner time is pretty much the same every night, it's not like it sneaks up on me requiring a rearrangement of my schedule to accomodate it. Anyway, I completely understood (again, I have kids and I know how things are), and rescheduled for today.

I called this morning to confirm the test drive and wanted to ask a few more questions about the car; documentation, cylinder to head leakage etc. Basically, he tells me that my qustions are a hassle and he'd just rather sell the car to somebody that isn't worried about the potential issues with the '90 964.

He goes on to tell me that he has never had the mechanic mention anything about potential leakage, and so it was a non-issue to him. Again, not that I have a problem with that either, but sheesh...it's the first time I ever heard basic questions being a "hassle" for a seller. I said if my questions are a hassle at this point, it's probably best that I walk away, and he agreed.

What is the freakin' problem? I've sold a ton of cars in the past. Buyers have questions, and as long as they aren't combative, then I'm pretty much inclined to answer. I know selling and buying can be a hassle. I don't like tire kickers either, or the super aggressive low-baller that tries to convince you that his/her offer is the best you're ever going to get. But as a cash-in-hand buyer, you'd think I'd get a *little* more cooperation from potential sellers.

I'm looking at another out of state car, seems like a fairly good deal...we'll see how that turns out.

Sorry for the rant...



R/
Dustin

[competentone]

The fact that you've found your experience so "exasperating" might say something about you, the buyer.

The first deal sounds like you have something to be annoyed about, but the second one sounds like you could be the "annoyer."

You already determined that the guy didn't know the mechanics of his car, yet you still wanted to continue the questioning about mechanical issues!?

If you realize you are buying a car from someone who doesn't understand mechanics, you just don't ask about it. You go and look at it and make your own determinations about the mechanical condition, or bring it to your mechanic to make that evaluation. To continue to "pester" the seller with questions he can't really answer is to annoy him.

[konish]

Thanks for the reply. It might say something about me, but then again it might not.

Not sure I would summarize my experience as "exasperating". Frustrating, yes. I guess readers will assign their own description. You choosing that word may say something about you...then again it may not.

To be clear, I wasn't asking the 964 seller anything specific about the mechanicals of the car in either case, but more along the lines of documentation on work completed. Ad stated that he had complete documentation, and I was merely asking about the general nature of the paperwork, specifically if he recalls anything from Porsche about fixing a cylinder to head leak...which they did for (some?) '90 cars under warranty.

Mind you, this wasn't an endless series of "cross examination" phone calls over several days or weeks. I mentioned we talked for about 20 minutes the first time, but some of that was devoted to him telling me about the 2 other 911s he owned, my own experiences etc...you know ice breaker stuff. Bascially two phone calls...one was initial contact, and one to confirm the new test drive time with one more general question about documentation.

Were questions asked? Sure there were. Did I aggressviely demand he answer questions about specific mechanical aspects of the car? No. Examples:

How long have you owned the car?
May I ask why you are selling?
Where was the work performed?
You stated you have documentation and receipts, was it all from you or was there a portfolio from the PO?
Anything from the factory concerning warranty work?
Did you run a carfax when you purchased it?
Did you have a PPI done?
Does it visibly leak oil now....e.g. puddling vs a drip or two?
Do you track the car?

Are these sorts of questions out of line? Maybe I am a pest.

R/
Dustin

[Porsche]

You're not a pest, you are a conscientious buyer. I don't see any problems with the questions you are asking. I suppose it does depend on the tone of voice you are using as it may not be the content of what you are saying but how you are saying it.

[The Donkey]

Just forget about it. Looks like you just had a couple of bad experiences. At least you didn't run through about 6 PPI's before you finally bought your car, like I did. That was expensive.

I do agree though that the first guy would have pissed me off. The second guy just sounds like he really doesn't care or need to sell the car. He just wants someone to walk up and buy it that thinks it is 'purty'.

Move on. Your odds will probably increase if you stick to this board though.

[baldman]

Originally posted by The Donkey
Your odds will probably increase if you stick to this board though.

Amen to that! I bought my 911 from this board and (looking back) I pestered the crap out of the poor guy! A lot of questions each phone call, probably 5 phone calls, getting his mechanic's phone number and calling him, having him drive the car over for a PPI... all this before flying up to San Fran to see the car. Through the whole thng he was very patient.

The first experience you had sounds like the guy was a jerk - a deal is a deal. As for the second guy, I have to agree that he sounds like someone who bought a Porsche to be "cool" and never bothered to learn anything about it. Then when you start asking intelligent questions you made him "nervous" and he wanted out.

[blau911]

One suggestion in order bto avoid number 1 from happening again. Before buying a plane ticket, have the seller meail or fax you a confirmation that you have the right to buy his car at the agreed upon price subject to an inpection. At least then you know that you are not throwing your money and your time out the wondow if you end up liking the car. I would normally never pay fora mechanic's inspection for a car unless the price has been agreed upon in advance, and the seller has committed to selling (i.e. agreement to sell letter) before spending any potentially wasted money. It could be that someone is just looking for a free mechanic's inspection to confirm that their car is healthy.

[nine11speedster]

ABSOLUTELY True, i completely agree.

Originally posted by The Donkey
Just forget about it. Looks like you just had a couple of bad experiences. At least you didn't run through about 6 PPI's before you finally bought your car, like I did. That was expensive.

I do agree though that the first guy would have pissed me off. The second guy just sounds like he really doesn't care or need to sell the car. He just wants someone to walk up and buy it that thinks it is 'purty'.

Move on. Your odds will probably increase if you stick to this board though.

[konish]

Originally posted by The Donkey
Just forget about it. Looks like you just had a couple of bad experiences. At least you didn't run through about 6 PPI's before you finally bought your car, like I did. That was expensive.

I do agree though that the first guy would have pissed me off. The second guy just sounds like he really doesn't care or need to sell the car. He just wants someone to walk up and buy it that thinks it is 'purty'.

Move on. Your odds will probably increase if you stick to this board though.

Can't say I'm exactly dwelling over it...I think I have a good line on a nice 3.2 for reasonable money, listed on this board. I also agree, I like Pelican as a source, but it does frequently mean out-of-state cars, which have their own logistical issues.

I've been on the board for a little bit, but it has it's dry spells. Spring always commands more money for nice cars (that are getting snapped up pretty quickly).

I guess the whole point of my original post was more of a "venting"....it used to be so simple:
Buyer: Nice car, would you take $$$$
Seller: Hmm....no, how about $$$$
Buyer: Hmm....lets meet in the middle, say $$$$
Seller: Okay
Buyer: (Hands over stack o'cash)
Seller: (hands over title and keys)
Buyer: (Drives off into the sunset)

R/
Dustin

[Rockafella]

Pelican is a hard place to sell a 911 that is not:

a) pre-1973
b) dirt cheap
c) well known/documented

I say this in a very neutral way. If you expect the "general public" people to be as knowledgeable as us here, you will be a disappointed buyer.

As a seller, I am a bit biased against selling a car on Pelican due to past experiences making me a disappointed seller. Lots of questions, then a low ball offer.

Since you don't sound like that type, I am helping my brother sell a C2 for sale that is not advertised here. PM me if you are interested and I would be happy to tell you everything. I tried to sell it here originally and have the worst story to tell about that experience.....

Good luck with your hunt. It is supposed to be fun.

[GothingNC]

Originally posted by Rockafella
Pelican is a hard place to sell a 911 that is not:

a) pre-1973
b) dirt cheap
c) well known/documented

As a seller, I am a bit biased against selling a car on Pelican due to past experiences making me a disappointed seller. Lots of questions, then a low ball offer.

I agree, there are a few vultures probing the forums.

[crosby50]

Reminds me of my 911 purchase. I had only driven a couple in my lifetime and wanted to make sure the one I found was representative of how a 3.2 should drive. I was buying from a reputable consignment place about one hour from my home. After looking at the car I scheduled a drive. I drove up to the shop again, and after driving the car once I told the co-owner of the shop that I would probably be back to drive it again after sleeping on it.

A few days later I scheduled a second drive. This time, the second co-owner was there. I was happy because he appeared to be a friendly, informative guy the first time I met him. However, the first thing he says when I arrive is, "Why would you want to drive this car again? Wasn't one time enough for you?" If I wasn't so smitten with the car I would have walked right there.

The PPI convinced me what a solid car it is. I was incensed by that comment, but figured some people just have trouble dealing with others. Also, some people react to past experiences. This guy may be used to joyriders coming in all the time just to take his cars out.

In the end, I feel like I got a great deal on a great car. Would I buy from them again? If they had the right car - probably.

[Long Nose]

IMO the buyer has the power, so why give it up.

You have what the whole world is looking for - cold hard cash!!!

And, you are willing to spend it. Once you spend it, you are SOL. You have an asset, but to convert that back to cold hard cash all depends on someone elses opinion of what that asset is worth.

So, if the seller wont play ball, too bad for him. Sssseya, wouldn't want to be ya. Lots of fish in the ocean. Do they think they have the only Porsche for sale in the word?

So, take your time, be an A-Hole, don't be in a big rush to spend your money, because to quote Pink Floyd - they aint given none away.

[the]

You did all the right things, but this is all just part of the deal.

Buying and selling used cars is a hassle, that's part of the reason why used car prices are low. Many don't want to deal with the hassles and would rather just go buy or lease a new car, and be done with it.

But I agree with Long Nose, I'd rather be the guy holding the cash rather than the guy selling the car! You have what EVERY seller is looking for, but only very FEW sellers have what you're looking for, so you're in the driver's seat.

Keep plugging along, don't compromise, you'll find what you're looking for!