Advice on Selling 86 Carrera

[RandalJ]

Hi, I've decided to part with my 86 carrera and go with a 99. The body on my 86 is an 8/10, 16 inch Fuchs spotless, interior also 8/10. The 915 sticks a bit in 2nd, but not too badly. Just over 90k miles.

But I will not sell without disclosing that I have a valve guide problem, with #6 exhaust known to be loose. This problem existed when I bought the car four years ago, and in the 20k miles since has apparently gotten no worse. My PPI guy told me ahead of time that that might be the case. But that he also said he wouldn't hesitate to drive to the East Coast and back (fr Phoenix) at the time (so I bought it and didn't worry).

Oil consumption is still OK, and the new owner could see another 10k or 20k miles before the work HAS to be done. But, of course, I can't substantiate that. It does blow a big puff of smoke occasionally whan coming to a stop, but only occasionally.

I'm thinking that it would be best to get the top end re-built before the sale (actually it's already on sale just to test the waters), so that I don't have to make excuses, go through a long story, etc. I can't imagine anyone coming to see, let alone wanting to buy the car, at any price, that they will assume has to be sent it to the shop right away for a month. They'll want to enjoy it right away, and uninterrupted for many months.

On the other hand, the opinion of many on this board seems to be that this is a losing proposition. That I should price low and of course disclose why, and let the new owner deal with it. But I'm just not getting this.

I think the car won't move at all if it needs this kind of work. That is, unless it is priced ridiculously low. And at that point, I might as well do the valve job, and lose 1-2 grand rather than not do it and lose 4 grand off of a "normal" price.

I'm thinking $15k to move it as is. Maybe $20k with the fresh top end. Assume great car that "just" needs a valve job.

Thoughts?

Thanks is advance.

[umfan866]

I can comment as a buyer who is the market right now for a 78-89 (SC's and Carrera's). There is a Carrara 3.2 G-50 coupe for sale around my area that started of at 20k, then went to 18k, and I could buy it for 16k. It has a recent clutch, needs say 1-2k to make it perfect, but the deal killer is that it has 150k miles and no top-end done on it yet. I am very tempted by this car, but given that I'd have to take out a loan for most of that 16k, I can't risk that a buy it and the next day I need to shell out $6-9k on a top-end. I am then into the car for 22k-25k a few days after buying it. For that price I could have gotten a true low-mileage car to begin with, one that I could drive a for along time without worrying about a top-end.

So now I am looking at cars that are either low-mileage SCs and/or Carrera's that already HAVE the top-end done. Believe it or not I found G-50 3.2 for 13k with a recent top-end, except it is a targa (and I only want a coupe) and it is located in the midwest.

Also, locally, there are 2 or 3 people selling 3.2 G50's with 200k+ miles for 13.5k that are about to need a rebuild. Even those cars are to risky because say you buy it, do the rebuiild, then you have spent 20k and STILL have a car with 200k on it where everything else may all of the sudden go wrong.

In your case, your engine already has a known definative need for the top-end and you have the 915 tranny and that sticks. I agree you are in a very tough situation. You could easily sink 10k of work into your car, but will people pay you 25k instead of 15? No. Even at 15, given that I could get a G-50 for 16k I think your no-top-end price is high since the market is soft right now.

If you really do want to move it now, your best bet might be to sell if for 12-13k as is, disclose everything up front, and hope that a Pelicanite who can do his own top-end for 3-4k in parts (with his own labor) buys it.

Sorry that life is this way. I'm sorry too that I need to spend say $200-$400 to get my bmw back to normal running condition just so I can sell it for $1,300 (kbb balue).

Another way to do this might be to bargain extra hard from whomever you buy your 99, to make up for the thousands you may lose selling your 86.. good luck.

[Monza_dh]

As an east coast buyer, I would agree with the logic of full disclosure and sell it low to move it or delay the purchase of the '99 and fix it now to keep it another year or so.

Prices on the older cars are falling faster than houses out here and there are deals to be had. Many of the G50 3.2's that were selling for mid $20's are going for high teens and any of the higher mileasge cars are sitting for weeks.

There are two '88's out here with 125K miles, decent records etc etc listing for $16 and $17.5K. Prices are usually higher here and sellers are now realizing the soft market.

[RandalJ]

Thank you for your opinions. Here in Phoenix there seem to be around five 3.2's for sale at any given time. In Auto Trader today there are six within 75 miles, with asking prices are ranging from $27.8k for an 89 cab with 55k miles, to $13k for a 200k mile 1986 targa. Also, now would be prime buying season in Phoenix, where the reverse would be true where winter weather approaches. I'm leaning toward having the valve job done while I drive the 996.
Thanks again.

[John se]

says its worth around 16K then Deduct for Reconditioningand damage repair so that upper end job is about 6K
Car is worth 10K

[Jay H]

I too feel your '86 may be worth $16k or $17k if it did not need the top end work. If 2nd is starting to stick, tranny work may be looming in the future as well.

I think $10,000 would sell it instantly even with the issues you have listed. $12k to $13k may be a good starting point for an asking price.

I'd shoot for the low price and full disclosure. People like very honest sellers (as you seem to be). You'd be surprised at how many DIY people there are out there or people that can get work done cheaply by friends that are good with a wrench.

I would not sink a ton of money into the car and then try to recoup that money. You may as well take your loss on the sale price of the car.

Good Luck!

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

[RandalJ]

It's been said many times here that they all cost $20k (maybe $18k now) for a good one, whether you buy it that way or fix it up...

I was quoted $3k for top end by the estimed PPI shop when I bought the car in 2002. I'll check with them, but I'm figuring maybe $4k now. That's still quite low compared to some of the prices I've heard on this board.

And perhaps it might be worth it to replace the 2nd gear synchro rather than do a full tranny re-build. Would this be practical?

Thanks again for your responses.

[deanslist.us]

I agree that the prices on this board are astronimically high for a top end rebuild. You could get the entire motor done for $5k-$6k. Shoot, I could spend $8k and get upgraded cams, rods, and pistons AND have the work done for me by a reputable shop. You could purchase an entire rebuilt motor for $6k-$7k. Doesn't make much sense to spend close to this amount just for a top end.

Additionally, I think I would go ahead and replace all synchros while you got it open. Don't think a full rebuild would be in order unless you notice some really worn-out parts.

I would say the car should move for $14k easily, $10k is way too low. It isn't like the car doesn't run at all...just needs a few extra things. You can't count labor prices in for vehicular values...and we all know labor costs more than parts.

[Goth]

I'm thinking this car only has 99K on it, so:

Option A: Just do the valves, guides (leave the barrels/rings alone) and perhaps the synchro (assume the tranny fluid, shifter bushings are good).

Option B: Just get a quote for the above work and knock off 125% (or so) off of the price.

I bought a fixer of sorts. My motivation was that I wanted a black Carrera coupe with the factory spoilers. I would only buy a local car that I could personally inspect. Getting it cheap allowed me to get it earlier and drive it (sounded good at the time... LOL!). Just trying to say the lower price may make it more affordable for those willing to take the risk.

Just my .02.. Good Luck!

[RandalJ]

Spoke to Jack Doverspike @ Stuggart SW in person today. Said plan on $3,800 for top end, and $1,500 for full tranny re-build. Maybe higher if there are any surprises. He'd want a more thorough inspection first.

I had my car out on the highway last Saturday. Man, it still drives nice. I don't think I could bring myself to sell "as is" even if I was offered $15k. I wonder if I could keep both... Just not put it up for sale after the work is done, and see if my wife notices. Maybe she wouldn't...

[RandalJ]

Been talking about it long enough. Here's a pic:

[Goth]

Nice!

[jwilberdog]

you seem to have the right attitude about it...good advice from the board. AZ market is like the CA market and a car like your with issues resolved is a 20k car IMO. Targas seem a little softer than coupe though and that might be due to simple supply and demand. From a recent review of a bunch of sights there are more targas than coupes and convertibles.

Really like the color of the car...what is it?

[deanslist.us]

I think the reason why values hold better in the southwestern region is weather. While all those north and eastern guys are buying cars at great deals to store for the winter, us southwestern guys are just beginning to have fun. The cooler weather is just what Dr. Ferdi ordered...my car runs spectacular in the no-snow winter-time here. The enjoyable timespan is year-round in these areas...

[RandalJ]

Hi - Sorry for the delay. The color is Prussian Blue.

[RandalJ]

Just to update you on the sale. I've had it listed for $17.5k for several weeks, and it went for $16k this week. I made all prospective buyers aware of the issues, and had several lookers before one finally made an offer. Looks as though it will have a good home, but I will miss it!

In the end I was leaning toward keeping it if I could not get around $17k. Everything else was too good, in my opinion, to let it go for less. Just too much "heft" to it, in terms of quality. I guess it was just a matter of time (four months). If I had needed a quick sale, I probably would have had to list it at $13-14 and settle for $12-13.

[umfan866]

Congrats on the sale! I think you did extremely well given everything. Overall people on this board are quite price-harsh (including me re-reading my post) so you stuck to your guns and got what you needed. So.... uh.. when's the next Porsche ... ?

[GothingNC]

Congratulations ans I hope the new owner enjoys the car for many more years.