New Correction in Speedster Prices?

[Wayne 962]

After seeing Speedsters reach and exceed the $100K mark, I see that this one sold for $55K at Palm Beach last weekend:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/auctionresults/common/cardetail.asp?id=185261

This car was solid, but needed a lot of little trim things (like seals), as far as I can tell from the photos. Still, it's another data point in the equation.

I've seen many people insist that their non-numbers-matching Speedsters are worth just shy of $100K. I'm not sure who's buying these cars, but at that price, I'm going to want a concours-quality car with all the numbers matching and confirmed.

-Wayne

[Paul T]

I agree Wayne - I have not been following the market that closely, but it seems to me the days of average Speedsters going for close to or over $100k are over for now. I remember in the 80s-90s nice examples were fetching $120k I think - for non-Carerra Speedsters! Any luck finding one yet?

[si Banker]

I can remember as a high school age kid who was obsessed with cars, especially Corvettes, visiting the local Corvette shop where I lived in Ft Lauderdale. It was 1967 and on any given day there were at least 15 cars, most of them were damaged from traffic accidents or stolen, stripped, and recovered. Each one of these cars were rebuilt and sent back out on the road. It was also customary to modify a 1963 "Split Window" coupe by "split" to look like a newer car. Side vents were changed and anything else you could imagine.

The point is that when I see a ad for a collector car stating "matching numbers" I get curious. How often do you see car ads that state "numbers do not match"? They are not any where near as common.

When the value of a car begins to climb the chance for deceptive activity increases too. The exception to this are cars that have a complete history with out any gaps. It's sad to say as the values go up the cars become to expensive to enjoy such a the Shelby Cobras.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
.......$100K. I'm not sure who's buying these cars, but at that price, I'm going to want a concours-quality car with all the numbers matching and confirmed.

-Wayne

Well, you can wish in one hand and you know what in the other and see which gets fuller.

I think the Pelican Forums has as much to do with the fervor as anything. The sheer popularity of the forums, along with Rennlist and the Early S registry, to name a couple, has, to some extent, driven the madness to the present high. I don't personally see any softening of the market, especially parts. Tried to buy a 15 x 7 Fuchs lately?

BTW, I think this forum is a good idea. Here we can discuss the merits, or lack of, regarding cars for sale in the next forum down the list.

[Zeke]

Banker, I used to work at a place like that here in Long Beach back in 1965. Your point is spot on and well taken. This is exactly what happened in those days. It's happend to Porshces, too. Lots of slant nose conversions and even more with flared fenders. How can one keep the same motor through all that? At least Porsche kept track of the builds and can produce those records. But, at the same token, I'll bet I can change the numbers on a case to where the average person can't tell. I've certainly seen it done many times on American cars. The only way the real number could be seen was with electronic testing of the metal.

Don't ask me how I know this, just let it be known that the place I worked for was shut down 2 weeks after I quit by the auto theft detectives. The place scared me. The people who came in and out of there scared me. I was there for the cars. Stupid, naive little boy.

[Wayne 962]

I haven't found one yet, although I was offered that car for $73K by Symbolic before it shipped out to the East Coast. I would have bought it for $55K (or slightly more) and saved everyone the trouble. But hindsight is 20/20, and they couldn't have predicted that auction price. I would have bid on that car, but I didn't really feel like having it shipped all the way back here again. Then again, for $55K, I guess it would have been worth it. I was in Mamouth that weekend anyways...

-Wayne

[MattKellett]

Wayne, I wouldn't be surprised if the owner didn't bid on his own car to buy it back for himself, of course he would then have to pay the commission, so overall quite a loss if this happened. I'm sure this has happened many times when the auction price gets no where near what the seller was hoping.

Matt

[Soterik]

Well, just as the Speedster's over $100k may be somewhat of an anomoly, so is that $55K Speedster. That was extremely well bought from the numbers that I have seen recently. I've been following the run-up, down, and back up since the 80's. The recent numbers of restored cars over $100K are more than the cars selling for the $55K range like the one you mentioned, at least that have been going through the auction cycle.

A friend of mine recently bought the TLG car, and paid $65K for it....happily. He's very pleased with the car.

I'm a little surprised that you passed on the Symbolic car at $73K...., but it's a 55 which isn't as desireable from what I have seen as the 56 and later cars.

regards,
Eric
Speedster, 82900

[grudk]

I think the market for most collector cars will be softening in the next few years, following housing.

The more interesting question, I think, is where they go in the longer term -- 20 or more years from now.

I would think that the market for a given model would 'peak' as interested enthusiasts age and drop out of the market(excepting 'museum' quality cars). Today's youth will not want Speedsters when they are in their peak earning years. They will probably want a 'Classic' WRX -- a car they envy today

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by MattKellett
Wayne, I wouldn't be surprised if the owner didn't bid on his own car to buy it back for himself, of course he would then have to pay the commission, so overall quite a loss if this happened. I'm sure this has happened many times when the auction price gets no where near what the seller was hoping.

Matt

I haven't seen it back at Symbolic, so I don't think this happened...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by Soterik
I'm a little surprised that you passed on the Symbolic car at $73K...., but it's a 55 which isn't as desireable from what I have seen as the 56 and later cars.

They were shipping it out on Tuesday, and it was the Thursday before, and I was going up to Mamouth all weekend, so I would not have had time to take a look at it. $73K is in the ballpark, but the timing just wasn't there, and the car looked a bit worn in the photos...

-Wayne

[pizzy]

wayne, buy yourself an A coupe. back in 2000 i lusted after a speedster. drivers were about 35-40,000 but couldn't seem to make the deal. finally decided to get an A coupe that had been totally restored. still have the car and love it... prices have done well on the coupes so expect to pay appr 35-40,000. better in the rain too

[Wayne 962]

It doesn't rain here.

I had a coupe - liked it, but you know, the Speedsters are the blue chips of the market. Plus, my wife likes them too...

-Wayne

[trader220]

Wayne not that this will help you find a speedster at a good price but in this weeks Autoweek "Market" section they showed one that sold at Amelia Island for 121k. Granted its a concourse car. In that section of autoweek they always highlight a collector car and where and when its sold. If you'd like to see iit let me know I can scan it in later.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
The one in this week's AutoWeek that sold for $121K didn't even have the original engine in it.

Hmm, then it wasn't a concours car. As we have proven with this thread, prices go all over the map at auctions, and aren't a real indicator of actual value. If that car didn't have the original engine, I *guarantee* you I could have bought the $55K car and turned it into a better car for far less than $50K.

Seems as if there's an asset bubble, and people are just buying anything. I think I will wait patiently for the right car to come around at the right price. Many years ago, I used to be a cheap SOB on buying cars, but now I appreciate that the top quality cars are indeed going to demand a premium. I'm not against paying a premium for a good car, but if I did pay that price, the car had better be perfect and have matching numbers. $121K without the original deal is poorly bought...

-Wayne

[smross]

Pricing is all over the place. One highly regarded Porsche restorer/dealer told me that he thinks that Speedsters "done right" are in the $150-200k range. Yet I know of a BEAUTIFUL Speedster that just went for $112k; Bali blue (wrong color but stunning) flat nardi and five Rudge wheels which are worth $15k by themselves. This was truly a top of the world car that went for short money by current market standards.

Take a look at some dealer's inventories and prices.

http://www.paulrussell.com/
http://www.autosportdesigns.com/
http://www.astonmartin-lotus.com/home.php

Speedsters ain't goin' down, nor are most other classic car prices decreasing.

Regards,
Steve Ross

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by smross
Speedsters ain't goin' down, nor are most other classic car prices decreasing.

Regards,
Steve Ross

Not yet. But keep in mind that these are cars that are offered for sale - not actual sales. The actual sales (like the $55K one in the first thread in this post) are more of an indicator of the market than simple asking prices...

-Wayne

[smross]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
[B]Not yet. But keep in mind that these are cars that are offered for sale - not actual sales. The actual sales (like the $55K one in the first thread in this post) are more of an indicator of the market than simple asking prices...

I respectfully disagree. Two of the Speedsters shown were sold, one was offered at $170k and the other $175k. Of course, that doesn't mean that they actually sold for those prices but they probably sold closer to their asking prices than the $55k figure you mention as being market price. Too, one of the cars on those sites was recently purchased by one dealer from another dealer for circa $125k and is now being offered for significantly more.

At this point in time, properly restored Speedsters are going for $100k+. Could that change tomorrow? Absolutely. I just haven't seen any indication that the market for these cars is slowing down (and I'm also not saying it makes any sense.)

Regards,

Steve Ross

[MattKellett]

Anyone have any idea how much a driver level (if any exist) speedster is going for now?? Have they increased in value over the past year?

Matt