Price check on a very low miles 89 944 turbo

[blau911]

A friend of my brother has an 89 944 turbo al original with very low miles (less than 30k), which he has offered to sell me.
I have not seen it yet, but it is triple black and it is like new, and has sat in a heated garage, started every few weeks, and never seen rain or snow.
What's it worth?
I saw that abguy had posted an 87 or 88 944 turbo here a few weeks ago with very low miles, and he was asking mid $30's. Car was sold in a few days of its posting but I have no idea what it actually sold for.

[WPOZZZ]

A friend just bought an 89 944 turbo in excellent condition with some mods, 32k on the odometer for $8k.

[natey]

$8k is well below market value, unless there were problems we don't know about. It's a fair deal on a regular 86-88 non-S turbo in good shape, but awfully cheap for a nice S (or an '89, which has all the turbo-S equipment).

$30k is probably well above market value, unless its ultra-low miles / concourse show car condition, or modified for big HP, and even then $30k seems steep.

The 944 market has taken a dive since I bought mine for $12k (cheap at the time) with 90k miles, but I still think a nice turbo-S is worth at least $10k with ~100k miles. Low miles can be a big unknown...the hard parts are in great shape, but the seals / gaskets / hoses may be cracked and dry rotted. The timing belt should be replaced (immediately!) due to age, even if it is under the suggested mileage. How much of a premium that's all worth is pretty much up to you, I think.

(A final nitpick, it's probably not "triple" black -black interior / black exterior / black ragtop-, unless it's a convertible, in which case it's worth a lot more than $12k...a 944 turbo cabrio is a rare bird, worth all the more if it has -S equipment...)

[Macroni]

These appear to be all over the place for a clean low mileage car. Excellence magazine had two that sold this week in their readers sales report section. 1986 w 46k @ $6900 and 1 @ 28k for $16,000.
The mag says they should be about $13k to $16k cars.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by Luke Marano Jr

These appear to be all over the place for a clean low mileage car. Excellence magazine had two that sold this week in their readers sales report section. 1986 w 46k @ $6900 and 1 @ 28k for $16,000.
The mag says they should be about $13k to $16k cars.

We just had an 86 that was for sale with roughly the same miles and for the same price. The 89 that sold for $8k was in excellent cond with no known defects. 944s just don't sell well here.

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

We just had an 86 that was for sale with roughly the same miles and for the same price. The 89 that sold for $8k was in excellent cond with no known defects. 944s just don't sell well here.

I'm assuming that this is the same car that I investigated and had several communications with the owner about some weeks ago. The owner was very forthcoming about the car and sent me copies of maintenance invoices and a fair number of pictures. There were enough issues with the car that I didn't jump on it immediately, but wanted to have PPI done and it sold locally before that could be arranged.

Judging from the pictures and other info I was able to gather, the fact that this car had been stored outdoors for many years had left the car in very poor cosmetic condition for such a low-miler. Apparently the climate in Hawaii is very hard on cars, I was surprised to learn. IIRC it had been repainted once. I couldn't determine the quality of the paint, original or not from the pix, but it didn't look great. There had been some body damage to the panel between the headlights which had been replaced by a fiberglass piece that I didn't car for at all. The Clubsport alloys were in really rough shape in the pix. Seats were covered with "Wet Okole" seatcovers and owner said they were not in good shape underneath. Mechanical issues included some grinding when shifting gears and an undiagnosed oil leak of some sort. The thing that most put me off about the car was the apparent condition of the engine compartment, which looked downright scary to me in the pix I had. And my concern was amplified by an invoice for some fairly-recent work which included replacing "corroded brake and fuel lines." The seller assured me that the car was in great mechanical condition (except for the tranny noises and the oil leak) and may well have been. I just didn't want to proceed without a realistic idea of what it would cost to bring this car up to "very good" condition. A top quality paint job alone would be major $$. I think $8K was a fair price for this car and if the new owner is lucky and if he's also handy, he might have himself a real bargain after all is said and done. But it wasn't a "no-brainer" for me by any means. Final thoughts on THIS car: in ALL-ORIGNAL and very good condition would sell for $20K. If brought up to "very good" driving condition as-is, maybe $16K. The gap between $8K and $16K is quickly bridged when it comes to working on these cars, as we all know.

As to the overall market--an '89 with 9,200 miles was sold after being listed for $29K--so I assume that the price was at least $25K. There is an '89 with 1,425 miles--a "Silberosa" in concours shape--for sale in Texas for $43K. An '86 with sub-20K miles sold last year on eBay for $18K and another just over 20K-miles and in superb shape sold (reported by buyer) for $24K. I personally sold a 21K-mile '87 in excellent (or beyond) condition for $18.5K. The point being that really low-mileage, super-condition examples of 951's (and S2's) are entering in the category of really rare and the prices are reflecting it. Of course they still lag behind 911's of similar mileage and quality, but they are well above and beyond what good-condition cars go for, even nicely modified ones. While I wouldn't call any 951/S2 "collectible," really nice original cars are demanding a premium.

Just my .02--YMMV, etc.

[blau911]

Thanks guys. I figured $11-16k. I guess it is on the low side of that.
BTW, this is nt the car that sold in Hawaii and sat outdoors. This car is out of the midwest.
Next question. Are the 944 turbos fun cars? I have never had or driven one.
It's a nturbo so it must have some get up and go. But what kind of performance numbers are we talking about? Could it keep up with a good late 80s 911 for example?

Originally Posted by jjflash

I'm assuming that this is the same car that I investigated and had several communications with the owner about some weeks ago. The owner was very forthcoming about the car and sent me copies of maintenance invoices and a fair number of pictures. There were enough issues with the car that I didn't jump on it immediately, but wanted to have PPI done and it sold locally before that could be arranged.

Judging from the pictures and other info I was able to gather, the fact that this car had been stored outdoors for many years had left the car in very poor cosmetic condition for such a low-miler. Apparently the climate in Hawaii is very hard on cars, I was surprised to learn. IIRC it had been repainted once. I couldn't determine the quality of the paint, original or not from the pix, but it didn't look great. There had been some body damage to the panel between the headlights which had been replaced by a fiberglass piece that I didn't car for at all. The Clubsport alloys were in really rough shape in the pix. Seats were covered with "Wet Okole" seatcovers and owner said they were not in good shape underneath. Mechanical issues included some grinding when shifting gears and an undiagnosed oil leak of some sort. The thing that most put me off about the car was the apparent condition of the engine compartment, which looked downright scary to me in the pix I had. And my concern was amplified by an invoice for some fairly-recent work which included replacing "corroded brake and fuel lines." The seller assured me that the car was in great mechanical condition (except for the tranny noises and the oil leak) and may well have been. I just didn't want to proceed without a realistic idea of what it would cost to bring this car up to "very good" condition. A top quality paint job alone would be major $$. I think $8K was a fair price for this car and if the new owner is lucky and if he's also handy, he might have himself a real bargain after all is said and done. But it wasn't a "no-brainer" for me by any means. Final thoughts on THIS car: in ALL-ORIGNAL and very good condition would sell for $20K. If brought up to "very good" driving condition as-is, maybe $16K. The gap between $8K and $16K is quickly bridged when it comes to working on these cars, as we all know.

As to the overall market--an '89 with 9,200 miles was sold after being listed for $29K--so I assume that the price was at least $25K. There is an '89 with 1,425 miles--a "Silberosa" in concours shape--for sale in Texas for $43K. An '86 with sub-20K miles sold last year on eBay for $18K and another just over 20K-miles and in superb shape sold (reported by buyer) for $24K. I personally sold a 21K-mile '87 in excellent (or beyond) condition for $18.5K. The point being that really low-mileage, super-condition examples of 951's (and S2's) are entering in the category of really rare and the prices are reflecting it. Of course they still lag behind 911's of similar mileage and quality, but they are well above and beyond what good-condition cars go for, even nicely modified ones. While I wouldn't call any 951/S2 "collectible," really nice original cars are demanding a premium.

Just my .02--YMMV, etc.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by jjflash

I'm assuming that this is the same car that I investigated and had several communications with the owner about some weeks ago. The owner was very forthcoming about the car and sent me copies of maintenance invoices and a fair number of pictures. There were enough issues with the car that I didn't jump on it immediately, but wanted to have PPI done and it sold locally before that could be arranged.

Judging from the pictures and other info I was able to gather, the fact that this car had been stored outdoors for many years had left the car in very poor cosmetic condition for such a low-miler. Apparently the climate in Hawaii is very hard on cars, I was surprised to learn. IIRC it had been repainted once. I couldn't determine the quality of the paint, original or not from the pix, but it didn't look great. There had been some body damage to the panel between the headlights which had been replaced by a fiberglass piece that I didn't car for at all. The Clubsport alloys were in really rough shape in the pix. Seats were covered with "Wet Okole" seatcovers and owner said they were not in good shape underneath. Mechanical issues included some grinding when shifting gears and an undiagnosed oil leak of some sort. The thing that most put me off about the car was the apparent condition of the engine compartment, which looked downright scary to me in the pix I had. And my concern was amplified by an invoice for some fairly-recent work which included replacing "corroded brake and fuel lines." The seller assured me that the car was in great mechanical condition (except for the tranny noises and the oil leak) and may well have been. I just didn't want to proceed without a realistic idea of what it would cost to bring this car up to "very good" condition. A top quality paint job alone would be major $$. I think $8K was a fair price for this car and if the new owner is lucky and if he's also handy, he might have himself a real bargain after all is said and done. But it wasn't a "no-brainer" for me by any means. Final thoughts on THIS car: in ALL-ORIGNAL and very good condition would sell for $20K. If brought up to "very good" driving condition as-is, maybe $16K. The gap between $8K and $16K is quickly bridged when it comes to working on these cars, as we all know.

As to the overall market--an '89 with 9,200 miles was sold after being listed for $29K--so I assume that the price was at least $25K. There is an '89 with 1,425 miles--a "Silberosa" in concours shape--for sale in Texas for $43K. An '86 with sub-20K miles sold last year on eBay for $18K and another just over 20K-miles and in superb shape sold (reported by buyer) for $24K. I personally sold a 21K-mile '87 in excellent (or beyond) condition for $18.5K. The point being that really low-mileage, super-condition examples of 951's (and S2's) are entering in the category of really rare and the prices are reflecting it. Of course they still lag behind 911's of similar mileage and quality, but they are well above and beyond what good-condition cars go for, even nicely modified ones. While I wouldn't call any 951/S2 "collectible," really nice original cars are demanding a premium.

Just my .02--YMMV, etc.

A friend bought that car and he cleaned her up really well. Bought some turbo twists replicas and adjusted the headlight bucket.

[natey]

Originally Posted by blau911

Next question. Are the 944 turbos fun cars? I have never had or driven one.
It's a nturbo so it must have some get up and go. But what kind of performance numbers are we talking about? Could it keep up with a good late 80s 911 for example?

Is it a fun car?? Does it say 'Porsche' on the back?

Other answers to this question will vary greatly, depending on whether you ask it in the 911 or the 944 forum, of course. Basically, the '89 944 turbo has comparable power to the 911's of the same era, but with turbo lag...if you love the flat 6, this ain't it. If you love the rush of the turbo, you're in the right place. The 944 is a little heavier, but with 50/50 balance, so it's quite nimble - handling is a strong point. Also, the transmission has a more modern feel than the 915. Of course, as a 944 owner, I'm biased.

The '89 model year also comes with a lot of nifty equipment standard: adjustable suspension for height and rebound, LSD transaxle, bigger turbo than earlier years, stiffened chassis, and bigger brakes. Most of this was optional on earlier cars. So if you like the 944 turbo, this is the year to have. Again, I may be a bit biased...

[racer]

An '86-88 944T was rated at 217hp. A same year 911 was rated between 200-214. 911's were lighter (100-200lbs).

An '88 Turbo S or '89 Turbo (essentially an S without the S name tacked on) would be the one to have. They came standard with M030 sport suspension, Adj spring perches, LSD, Hardened 1st and 2nd gears, More HP (rated at 247hp) and 928S4 front brakes. Also had a thickened cylinder head to cope with the additional hp. The Turbo S/ 89 was rated 0-60 in about 5.2 seconds with 161mph top speed. A 911 was a tad slower in accel and topped out around 149mph.

An 88-89 911 was just like the earlier ones.

944Ts are "easy " to chip for more hp, but they tend not to last long with too much boost. They are fun, if you like the rush of Boost. Their shift linkages are a bit easier too. They are also less expensive than same vintage 911's.

911's feel lighter when driving.. steering is unboosted, and is more visceral than the 44's. Both are fantastic cars, just different.

[DanielDudley]

Very fast cars if you keep on them. Very civilized cars if you just drive them.