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964 values
Rather than hijack the thread on a particular 964 elsewhere on this forum, I thought I would post Trader220's remark here and see what kind of discussion it generates.
Quote:
(Moderator: if this thread would be more appropriate in the 964 Forum, feel free to move it there.)
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Stephen Porter -- ABQ, NM --------------------------------------------------------------------- Current: 2007 base Cayman and 1989 944 Past: 2 914's (ancient history)...long list of 951's, S2's, one Boxster S and garage-queen '89 928 S4, now living in Texas. Last edited by jjflash; 10-15-2007 at 03:58 PM.. Reason: Addition |
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10-15-2007, 03:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,347
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964 Pros: More HP and TQ than stock 3.2 versions. Torque sure is nice - gets you out of low speed corners quickly. Also, better AC system than 3.2s. Also, ABS and Airbage, so if your S/O is all up in arms over safety, there you go. Bigger/better brakes on the 964. Neary 80% of the car was changed when Porsche created the 964. Power steering too (makes it easier to street drive)
To many, the 964 is a bit neglected.. some don't like the bumpers/sideskirts that have a cheap "added on" appearance. That has pushed resale values down (the exception the RSA, which seems to stay artificially high) The 3.2 would be lighter.. and are also great cars - '87 and newer use the same basic G50 trans as the 964. Some say their style is "more pure".. style is subjective. Decent AC. You really need to drive them and figure out which you like. Some friends who have had newer and older like the 964 as a great blend of "early (3.2)" and "late (993)".
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1970 914-6 Past: 2000 Boxster 2.7, 1987 944, 1987 924S 1978 911SC, 1976 914 2.0, 1970 914 w/2056 |
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10-16-2007, 05:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: WI, US
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I've got a 1990 C2 (964) and a 1984 3.2 Carrera. My brother has two '83 SC's, a '70 T and a '65 911. I've got extensive seat time in my brother's cars as well as knowing my two 911's inside and out. I drive the 3.2 daily when it's not raining or snowing.
Here's my take: As a 964 owner, I don't want to admit it, but have to agree that the 964 is not the most loved 911 of the model run from '65 to '98. However, the 964 does have strong supporters and there are people that love 'em. You'd be surprised to find out how many people are interested in buying a clean 964. I get an unsolicited offer almost every year for my 964. I've got two dealers in the que that will buy my 964 without question, right here, right now, should I want to sell it. So, there is some demand. 10 years ago, you couldn't give away a 964 since the 993's were still new and "the" 911 to have. That trend is changing now that the 993 has devulged it's weaknesses and more people are finding out that the 964 is a performance bargin if you find a good one. The two big items that really hurt the 964 from day 1 were the bumper treatment that racer mentions and the cylinder to head leak that affected enough cars early enough in the model run to give the 964 a bad mechanical rap. That bad rap just isn't leave the 964... It's just like the 2.7 liter cars and their bad reputations. As far as how a 964 drives as compared to earlier cars and the later 993, I can give you my perspective. The lightweight feel left the 911's when the impact bumper cars came around in '74, so nothing newer than that compares to the very early cars and how they feel. A 2.7 mid year drives relatively similar to a late model 3.2 Carrera, though weight increases as you get newer and the G-50 of the '87+ cars shifts a bit better. All that being said, the 964 is a very different experience. It's heavier, but has boat loads more power. The increase in torque and hp is very tangible over the outgoing 3.2 liter cars. There is little difference in power outputs between an '84 Carrera and an '89 Carrera, but a '90 C2 is quite a bit quicker than that '89 3.2 liter Carrera. Racer makes good points about the safety equipment, ventilation and brakes, all of which I agree with. The 964 still handles very well and it's a very quick car even at today's standards, but the lightweight and raw feel of the 911 is pretty much gone after the '89 3.2 Carrera was discontinued. The 964 is much quieter and more isolated than the previous cars. Many the sound and feel of the 3.2 911's are pretty much there yet (fan noise, road feel, rear engine bias, etc), but they are much more muted and things are more refined in feel. It's more "GT" in feel. That could be good or bad depending on what you want out of 911. Maintenance costs are more for the 964 since they are just plain more complicated. There is more stuff to break. Improvements in comfort, convenience and safety come at a price. The 993 has more power, but the increase isn't tangible to me. I can't feel an improvement of 1 or 2 tenths of a second from 0-60 over the 964's time. The 6 speed in the 993 is nice, but it's really just another gear for the highway. The 5 speed in the 964 has nice ratios. The big difference in the 993 vs. 964 is the rear suspension change which makes for a large difference in ride quality. 993's handle broken/poor streets much better than 964s. That's a big difference in favor of the 993. Think about the 1993 and 1994 964's. Those are probably the best modern 911 out there besides the 1995 993. There were no faults from the factory with the '93's and '94's; everything had been corrected by then. The 1995 993 does not have OBDII, so you skip the CEL issues with that year. However, find a well sorted out 1990 964 and there are no differences other than mirrors and rims from a 1994 964. Want something different and quick that will be a great daily driver? I'd look into a 964 if you like the looks. Even if you don't like the looks, live with one for awhile and it'll grow on you. It did for me. But, of the 6 cars in the family, if I have to pick one for a blast on the back roads on a nice warm day, I'll pick my brother's '65 all day long. That car is just plain special in it's very direct feel, power delivery and knowing you're driving a 911 as it was first designed. The '70 is a close second (it's like driving a tractor and I love it). I enjoy driving the '84 every few days to work and for running errands here and there, but if I had to have just one 911 for everyday, all year round, it would easily be the 964. That's no contest. Sorry for the length. I hope this helps! Jay The 911's Last edited by Jay H; 10-17-2007 at 07:11 PM.. |
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10-17-2007, 06:56 PM
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Racer/Jay,
Thanks for the comments! Very helpful. Quote:
When you say a "well-sorted" '90, I assume that you mean one that has had all the issues: cylinder head upgrade, replaced flywheel, the distributor belt thing, addressed? Quote:
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Stephen Porter -- ABQ, NM --------------------------------------------------------------------- Current: 2007 base Cayman and 1989 944 Past: 2 914's (ancient history)...long list of 951's, S2's, one Boxster S and garage-queen '89 928 S4, now living in Texas. |
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10-17-2007, 07:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: WI, US
Posts: 666
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Quote:
Yes, by "well sorted '90 (or '89 or '91)" I mean finding a nice condition early car that has either been fixed or is dry. Many, many early cars have never leaked and will never leak. The Freudenberg Dual Mass Flywheel is getting so old now that I bet there are not many of these in service anymore. The update was to a LUK unit that has been much more reliable and was used in the late 964's and 993's. The distributor belt issue has now become a non issue for the 964's. It's a $15 part and a half hour of labor to install the vent kit. Any 964 or 993 that has over 50,000 miles and 10 years of age on it probably should automatically have the dual distributor belt changed out as preventative maintenance. These things are old enough to fail now even if the vent kit was installed. So, all the 964's (with vent kits) and 993's are in the same boat as far as the dual distributor belt goes. Let us know if you find a 964 to drive and whether you like it or not. Good luck, Jay |
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10-18-2007, 04:28 PM
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Sharky
