1970 911E w 911S brakes from factory?

[Ronald Williams]

I have my 1970 911E Targa for sale on Ebay and Porsche experts have been inspecting it. I was told that it has 911S calipers (they are aluminum). I know that they were not installed after the car was purchased from the dealer and the purchase invoice doesn't reflect that they were dealer added.

Did Porsche make some 1970 911E's with 911S brakes?

Ron Williams

[ossiblue]

My understanding is the E was essentially a detuned S and had many of the same options as the S including trim, brakes, and gauges, so being a factory car it may not list the items separately as they are "stock" to the E. The E also had the infamous hydropneumatic front suspension for comfort as well as 14" rims for a smoother ride.

[Ronald Williams]

Thanks. Makes sense. My hydropneumatic front suspension was the first thing I replaced back in 1975.

Ron Williams

[onboost]

I not sure, but I think the "E" did not come standard with those brakes.. they had to be ordered as an option. That being said however, it is reasonable that the car in question came with the "S" brakes.

You could order an "E" or a "T" with the full "S" option package or pick and choose what you wanted.

The "E" are really nice cars.. quite a bit more punch than the "T", but you don't have to run it up on the cams all the time to make it happy like you do with the "S".

Just my 02 cents worth.. and good luck.

Paul

[onboost]

I not sure, but I think the "E" did not come standard with those brakes.. they had to be ordered as an option. That being said however, it is reasonable that the car in question came with the "S" brakes.

You could order an "E" or a "T" with the full "S" option package or pick and choose what you wanted.

The "E" are really nice cars.. quite a bit more punch than the "T", but you don't have to run it up on the cams all the time to make it happy like you do with the "S".

Just my 02 cents worth.. and good luck.

Paul

[Ronald Williams]

For $8,986 in 10/69 you would think you would get S options.

Thanks, Paul.

Ron

[JohnKo]

My very original '70 911E has "S" brakes and they are not listed as options on the original paperwork.

[lwa]

Until recently, my '71E had original hydro-pneumatic housings with adapters to accept a standard insert. The mounting holes for the brakes were spaced 3.5". 'S' brakes have 3.5" spacing, 'M' have 3.0" spacing.

Larry

[Ronald Williams]

Thanks for the additional input. It's clear to me that some 1970 911E's came from the factory with S brakes.

Ron Williams

[ZCAT3]

Ron - did your car sell via eBay?

[Ronald Williams]

Hi Bill, No it didn't sell. I only got two bids: one at my starting bid of $20k and one a hundred dollars over that. If you knew the car and its history it is hard to understand greater interest in a T coupe with the ad pointing out shortcomings my car doesn't have (such as rust. not reliable to drive, dents, and limited information regarding maintenance). That car sold for over $40k. Well, the worse that can happen is my keeping a great car for another 36 years.

Thanks for asking.

Ron Williams

[K. Roman]

You should get rid of the side mirrors. Other than that, it's a beauty!

[Ronald Williams]

Thanks K. Roman. I put the mirrors on because (1) I think Dr. Porsche would have in 1970 if he had them and (2) I'm a driver and it drives so good with them. Having said that, you have a lot of company and for for resale value you are dead on. It looks like I may or may not sell it and I'm leaving them on for me. If there is a next owner he/she can take them off.

[ossiblue]

Ron,
I think your car truly looks great, and though I didn't follow your ad on eBay, your comments here indicate it to be a well sorted and ready-to-roll "E". I understand your dismay at the prices of coupes of lesser quality--both in condition and model--but in the market today, the overriding factor seems to be that Targas just aren't as popular. It's the basic "supply and demand" function at work--the short supply of long hoods, coupled with a strong demand, is rapidly raising their prices but within that rising market, the (relative weak) demand for Targas is holding their prices back and the (relative) supply of Targas is high. Take a look at eBay today and notice how many cars offered are Targa and you'll see a lot of competition.

Of course, I'm telling things you already know but I guess I'm doing it because we all get an emotional connection to our cars and sometimes can't understand why everyone else isn't so excited too. Your car looks outstanding--really a beauty--and someone with the Targa prefrence will eventually pay the price you feel it's worth. It's just going to take a bit more time and effort.
My $.02 and a lot of words.

[evergreen]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

...the overriding factor seems to be that Targas just aren't as popular. It's the basic "supply and demand" function at work--the short supply of long hoods, coupled with a strong demand, is rapidly raising their prices but within that rising market, the (relative weak) demand for Targas is holding their prices back...

Ron and/or Ossi, I'm not ready to concede that early 911 Targas are less desirable than coupes (full disclosure: I own 2 longhoods, 1 coupe and 1 targa). I am not claiming that Targas demand a premium, but I don't believe that one can say categorically that Targa values lag behind the coupe. I think the valuation for ANY early 911 is very much a case-by-case, individual car analysis.

I suspect it may be that Pelicanites prefer coupes.

Originally Posted by ossiblue

...Your car looks outstanding--really a beauty--and someone with the Targa prefrence will eventually pay the price you feel it's worth. It's just going to take a bit more time and effort.
My $.02 and a lot of words.

L.J. - This ^^I agree with wholeheartedly.

[jkarolyi]

'69 - '71 model 911Es came standard with the hydro suspension, S brakes, guages, and bumper trim, and 14" Fuchs like you have. Any 911 fitted with the hydro suspension will have S brakes...they were part of the package.

In '72, Porsche de-contented the E somewhat to combat inflated prices...eliminating as standard all of the above goodies. Excepting the engine, the E was equipped more like the T than the S in '72-73...the only difference was that for '73 Porsche introduced the cookie cutter cast alloys as standard on the E.

[Ronald Williams]

Evergreen- I had a 1966 911 coupe and then the 1970 targa. I like open-air but not ragtops. I do have to agreed with ossiblue but I would change it to less desired from less desirable. But that's what makes horseraces.

Jay- Wow most definitive anwer yet. I have one for you. My 1970 911 E Targa has a silver sticker on the leading edge of the ashtray that says "fasten seat belts". I don't think that the prior owner put it on so I'm guessing it came from the factory. I never took it off but I suspect that most were removed.

Ron Williams

[JV44HeinzBar]

Hi,
I'm curious about this subject as well. However, my situation is slightly different and I don't mean to hi-jack this thread. But rather than starting a new thread to get an answer, I'll post my question here.

I have a 1970 911T that is listed as having the comfort package. I believe that the comfort package includes 'S' trim, but I'm not 100% positive. I still have the original 14' Fuchs on the car.

1. I'm wondering what exactly comes with the 'comfort package' and what are the differences between the comfort package and 'S' trim?

2. Would my 70T w/ the comfort package include the 'S' brakes.

3. If so, how can one tell by looking at the brakes?

TIA,
Brent

[jkarolyi]

1. Hydro suspension, 14" Fuchs wheels (for softer riding taller tires), and S brakes make up the comfort package. Not the S trim, although most 911s were ordered with this package by '70.

2. Yes...at least I've never seen a comfort package car without them.

3. Take a magnet to your front brake calipers. If it sticks, they are normal steel calipers. If it won't, then they're aluminum caliper S brakes.

[JV44HeinzBar]

Thanks Jay.

Brent