Engine Swaps for Long Hoods

[healeykit]

Does having an upgraded engine kill the value of a long hood?

I'm found a couple of 1973 cars with 3.2 motors in them and I'm wondering what effect the engine change has on the value.

One car needs a paint job eventually the other has great paint but needs some interior tidying. Both were professionally done so the owners have probably dropped at least $20k into the upgrades.

Any guesses on what the market value for these types of cars would be?

In the end when I hit the loud pedal market value doesn't really matter

[pu911]

It depends on model of car, a 3.2 would be a big negative in an S but might not hurt value of T too much. Would need more info to make valuation guess.
Phil

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by pu911

It depends on model of car, a 3.2 would be a big negative in an S but might not hurt value of T too much. Would need more info to make valuation guess.
Phil

Completely agree. With the market for longhoods moving like it is, the value of all are increasing, but certain factors will determine how much of an increase you will attain. Originality is a key component because the longhoods have moved into the "collectable" category but as Phil wrote, the T is the least collectable. For the cars you mention, body, interior, and rust issues will determine value more than the engine transplant. Naturally, a 100% original, excellent condition, #'s matching T with history, will bring good money but that's not what you have been looking at.
The market value for the cars you described will be based more on the intentions of the potential buyers--those who want a reliable driver will not be put off by an engine transplant. Those who want to bring back to original specs (but not concourse) will be more interested in the body, interior, rust, and general mechanical conditions, as T engines are not too difficult to find if they want to "go there." Those who want to show the car will discount substantially the lack of the original engine.
Bottom line, it's nearly impossible, IMO, to put a value on what you posted without a clear understanding of just what the car looks like, as well as the intentions of the buyer (you). It will always come down to what you, the buyer, is willing to pay for a particular car.

[techweenie]

In my experience, market value is enhanced by more horsepower (unless it's a V8 conversion). Es and Ss are most valuable with the original drivetrain. So far, the T is an exception.

Unless a T is pristine and well-documented, you're not going to decrease the value with a later engine. The opposite is usually true. You will not, however, recover what you spend on the upgrade. I challenge anyone to drive any 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4 T back to back with a 2.7, 3.0, 3.2 or 3.6. You will not think of them as similar in value. Now, I may be prejudiced, having just put a 3.2 in a '72T, but then, I've owned over a dozen 2.4 machines, stock and not stock, and I can tell you, your biggest downside with an additional 60-100 HP is a permanent grin.

[healeykit]

These cars are both T models. I really want a great driving car and to my thinking the 3.2 is much better for me.

I wanted to check with you guys and see if paying $20,000 for a conversion car is out of line. I think if these cars still had their 2.4 motors they would be in the $15 to 20k range so if the conversion doesn't change the value much I shouldn't be too worried about the price?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by healeykit

These cars are both T models. I really want a great driving car and to my thinking the 3.2 is much better for me.

I wanted to check with you guys and see if paying $20,000 for a conversion car is out of line. I think if these cars still had their 2.4 motors they would be in the $15 to 20k range so if the conversion doesn't change the value much I shouldn't be too worried about the price?

Sounds like you're comfortable with what you've seen, you're clear on what you want in a car, and you've done some homework on current prices. I'd say you're ready to negotiate.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by healeykit

These cars are both T models. I really want a great driving car and to my thinking the 3.2 is much better for me.

I wanted to check with you guys and see if paying $20,000 for a conversion car is out of line. I think if these cars still had their 2.4 motors they would be in the $15 to 20k range so if the conversion doesn't change the value much I shouldn't be too worried about the price?

Wow; That is a tough question in that so much more goes into the car other than the motor. This was my mistake when I purchased my 3.2T. I underestimated details.

A high end conversion can be worth as much as a $100,000, [see R gruppe cars as examples] a low end can be worth under $13,000 [see Ebay]. You need to know what you are paying for. What needs to be completed or serviced? Does everything work windshield wipers, emergency flashers, heat, etc... What seemingly minor parts are missing, tool kit, owners manual? Does the car meet your needs completely or are you going into a car thinking I will fix/ change that when I own it. Important questions. How are the interiors, complete, modified? How is the fuel system? Electrical systems, brakes, suspension where they upgraded? 3.2 or 3.6 is quite a bit of additional power has the car been prepared to handle it.

To what level was the car converted? Was it converted for serviceability or was the conversion hybrid half 2.4 half 3.2?

There are some top end conversions that you can purchase now that are priced at $60,000. IMO, they are bargains. A well sorted originally equipped T is probably a better use of $20,000. and just as much fun. Here is a local car to me;

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/car/719995036.html

[silverc4s]

I would agree mostly with Macroni here. The other factor to look at closely is the current condition of the transplanted powerplant, etc.
If the 3.2 is now high miles, or miles unknown the value should be adjusted for some part of a $10,000 rebuild down the path a bit. A 3.2 also puts extra wear on the 915 trans, or heaven forbid the 901/911 in the car.
Check it over closely, make sure you know what you are getting. I don't think most T's will ever be collectible. Only those pampered, low miles, original concours cars, and the few original soft window targas willbe in that category. Drive the rest and ENJOY!!!

[Sunroof]

I always believed originality is everything with an older "collectible car". For the serious collector an unmolested older longhood is worth far more then a bastardized version with a 993 kit, upgraded engine or even the high back seats! I think you loose value everytime you replace the old with the new. My 1973.5T has stayed as original as possible aside from a momo wheel, pop-off valve, H4's and hydraulic tensioners. Thats where I stop on upgrades. I have kept it Sepia Brown despite the overall opinion poll on this color. If I were to drop a 3.0 CIS engine to replace my 2.4, despite the improved performance I just turned off a large number of true Porsche collectors. It then becomes an issue of personal preference.

Bob
1973.5T

[FPB111]

East coast price point for you.
I just sold a 1972T E/W 3.2 Mahle piston twin plug crank fire PMO, Turbo brakes, new bilstien struts and HD shocks, Factory short shift, Recaro SRD, roll bar, 5 point harness otherwise original interior. with "10 foot" paint for $30k with 1 spare set of 7 & 8 fuchs wit Hoosiers mounted The conversion was 17 years old with ~30k miles. Trans was just rebuilt.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by FPB111

East coast price point for you.
I just sold a 1972T E/W 3.2 Mahle piston twin plug crank fire PMO, Turbo brakes, new bilstien struts and HD shocks, Factory short shift, Recaro SRD, roll bar, 5 point harness otherwise original interior. with "10 foot" paint for $30k with 1 spare set of 7 & 8 fuchs wit Hoosiers mounted The conversion was 17 years old with ~30k miles. Trans was just rebuilt.

Boy you sold that fast. How many days?

[Macroni]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Porsche-1972-911T-Hotrod-Coupe-3-2-Carrera-Motor_W0QQitemZ230266690657QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truc ksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230266690657&_ trksid=p3756.m14.l1318


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1973-911-Porsche-Coupe-3-2-w-46-IDA-Webers_W0QQitemZ190233689190QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tru cksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190233689190& _trksid=p3756.m14.l1318

[healeykit]

I love the grey 73 - I'll be watching the auction.

[Shoepop]

The silver car is mine, Macroni is 100% correct "so much more goes into the car than the motor it's the details" I have seen to many early P cars with big motor and little else, worn out 901, baby brakes, worn out suspension etc. etc.

[forstephan]

I've been also watching those 2 cars and wanted to know witch one do you think is better?
Do you know any other converted 3.2 for sale?
Witch way make more sens to you when you like the look of the 73 but the performance of the 3.2.
1/ take a 73 converted to a 3.2?
2/ take a 3.2 and change the look of it as a 73?
My idea is to have a nice driver vintage looking that i could take occasionally on the track.
Thank you for your help.
Kind regards.
Stephane

[healeykit]

Hey Shoepop

Congratulations on the sale of your car. The sales on ebay seem to have become very sluggish but a nice car like yours can still bring good money.

[Shoepop]

Thanks, I guessed @ final price when it broke the reserve yesterday I missed it by $100! At auction close I got to see country of origin on all the bidders 75% outside of USA, it's going to Brazil. I is a very good example of a long hood hot rod, I'm sure buyer will be pleased.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by Shoepop

Thanks, I guessed @ final price when it broke the reserve yesterday I missed it by $100! At auction close I got to see country of origin on all the bidders 75% outside of USA, it's going to Brazil. I is a very good example of a long hood hot rod, I'm sure buyer will be pleased.

This car was a steal that could not be duplicated for $25,000.

[healeykit]

Brazil - wow - that's the power of the internet.

I think one thing is for sure with these conversion cars - regardless of the market value - they can never be duplicated for the purchase price. It's like almost anything else with classic cars if you can find one where someone else has spent the money and done a proper high quality job on the right car you'll always be farther ahead.

We only call them investments to convince our wives we are making a smart financial decision.

[Shoepop]

Originally Posted by Macroni

This car was a steal that could not be duplicated for $25,000.

AGREE 100%, Had I not built it in the early 90's with 16+ year old dollars add 25K minimum. I remember 'kinda' what I paid for the body, engine and trans axle back then and adding up other parts, paint, rebuild of all etc. NOT counting my labor it would come REAL close to selling price.