Opinions/Advice on Euro Spec 911’s?

[dellis32]

Hi Everyone,

I’m a new member that’s been looking for a 3.2 Carrera for a few months now. I’ve read a few older threads about Euro spec cars and have a few questions for anyone that has experience with them.
If the current owner does’t have the EPA/DOT documents, is there a way to get them? Has anyone had trouble registering a euro spec car without them?
What are the major potential “sins” from the conversion that may need to be corrected? I’ve read Bruce Anderson’s book but I’d be interested to hear any other thoughts or opinions anyone has.

A little about me: Lifetime sports car racing fan, I’ve been working on cars as a hobby since I was 14 when I bought a $20 69 Mustang (rebuilt it, swapped engine etc.) This will be my first Porsche, and plan to work on it with my kids. At this point I’m looking for a driver vs. a full blown project though. (the backdate will have to wait!)

Thanks in advance.

[dellis32]

Anybody?

[racer]

I had a '78 euro. While mine came with paperwork, once you find one thats already been registered, you shouldn't have an issue re-registering it in your home state. I did have to take a rubbing of the Vin with me to DMV (when I registered in NJ) because they vin # didn't make sense to them. Once done I was on my way with my new plates.

[dellis32]

Thanks racer, that's good information.
I did some more searching and found this older thread that discusses insurance issues, but also has contact info for the EPA and DOT for anyone who's interested:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=4970

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by dellis32

Thanks racer, that's good information.
I did some more searching and found this older thread that discusses insurance issues, but also has contact info for the EPA and DOT for anyone who's interested:

Just an observation: when it comes to dealing with the Federal government, let them come to you. Do not initiate contact.

[Jay H]

My brother has three Euro specification 911's. Two 1983 911SC's and a 1966 911. The '66 did not have any issues since it's been in the states since '68 and doesn't have emissions equipment anyway.

The two 1983 SC's are blatant Euro spec cars. The one that he has full records for was a German market car that was brought over in about 1988 or so. Both of these cars were converted to meet US laws, passed emissions and haven't given my brother any problems with registering the cars at any time. I think if a car you are looking has a only valid title, you should be fine. It might have to pass emissions at some point, but that can be done with relative ease these days. No one ever asked any questions or asked for any official EPA/DOT documentation (other than to have a valid title) on any of the Euro cars my brother registered.

The one and only major issue with all three of his Euro spec cars is a speedometer change. Once of his '83 SC's has a speedo from 1984 (due to the date stamp at the back of the unit) and no confirmed record of that speedometer instrument change. We have no clue as to how many actual miles are on this car.

The other '83 did not have an operating O2 sensor and the cat had long been gutted when he bought the car. Putting on a new cat and plugging the O2 sensor hole made the car pass with ease in our strict emissions testing that we have in WI. Problem solved, though the car doesn't seem to have quite the power it did with the old gutted cat.

Otherwise, I prefer the Euro spec cars to US Spec cars in some ways. The US spec SC cars seem to have just a bit more torque at low revs, but the increased compression of the Euro motors is quite evident and I feel the two Euro spec SC's he has are quite a bit quicker than other US spec SC's I've driven. I'd assume this is the case with 3.2 liter cars.

[dellis32]

Thanks guys, sorry for the delayed response. I guess what worries me is the potential insurance liability that was mentioned in the other thread (if something happens the insurance co. might not pay), but I hear you Tech.

Jay H, any problems with higher compression and the pump gas available?
Any car I buy will be a good weather daily driver.

Also, do you know if the speedo change was a required part of the federalization process?

Value-wise are the Euro spec cars generally worth less than US cars, assuming they are in similar condition?

Thanks Again!

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by dellis32

Thanks guys, sorry for the delayed response. I guess what worries me is the potential insurance liability that was mentioned in the other thread (if something happens the insurance co. might not pay), but I hear you Tech.

I have a special policy written on my 964 that is for 'stated' value. You can get policies that will insure for an actual value that you determine, but they are typically pretty expensive policies. Though, you will be covered for what you insured the car for.

Originally Posted by dellis32

Jay H, any problems with higher compression and the pump gas available? Any car I buy will be a good weather daily driver.

Zero issues. Both of the Euro Spec cars run fine on both ethanol free fuel and 10% ethanal gas (both blends are available around our area). Both my brother and I tend to drive the 15 miles extra to go over the border to the next county to get non ethanol blended fuel for our 911's, but we've never had any fuel related issues.

Originally Posted by dellis32

Also, do you know if the speedo change was a required part of the federalization process?

Yes, if the Euro spec car had a kph speedo, that had to be changed out to a mph speedo. I would assume that was the case with my brother's SC that has a 1984 speedo in his 1983 SC. The other SC with full records has documentation of the original kph speedometer being modified to read in mph.

Originally Posted by dellis32

Value-wise are the Euro spec cars generally worth less than US cars, assuming they are in similar condition?

It used to be stated that Euro spec cars were worth 10% or so less than an equivalent US Spec car. But, I think that these cars have aged so much that this 10% rule no longer applies. There are only three things that determine the value of an old 911. Condition, condition and lastly, condition. It's very hard to find two 911's for sale at the same time that are in similar conditions in all ways. If a Euro spec car is for sale and its in nice shape, I highly doubt the Euro aspect of the car will devalue it much. It's just plain hard to find nice older 911's at times. Plus, some individuals (like my brother) place a premium on the Euro spec cars.

[dellis32]

Thanks JayH for your detailed responses. I've heard the 10% number also, Excellence recently referenced it in the 'Readers Sales Reports' section.