Help appraising this 1980 911 SC Targa?

[kimbo305]

Can you guys help me appraise this 1980 911 SC Targa? There's several issues I found that I don't have expertise in evaluating. This request runs quite long and the pictures are kinda big, but I'd greatly appreciate any help you guys can offer!

Facts:
- Original owner. He seems pretty well off and isn't into wrenching cars, and so has had all maintenance work has been done by a reputable (I had heard of them before as a good exotic shop) local shop.
- Car has never been in the rain or snow.
- Last couple years has mostly seen storage for the car, with limited spring and summer driving. This spring, the owner got busy and let it sit in his garage. The sitting around is a red flag, as a mouse managed to get into the engine bay and die. However, the car was serviced after that by said exotic shop and given the ok.
- Car's odo broke at 35k and got a replacement right after, which now has 43k on it. 78k total miles.
- Car was broken into via window, had the original Blaupunkt head unit stolen. There's an aftermarket headunit.
- Car has been repainted (which I know hurts resale) reasonably nicely.
- Transmission and calipers were rebuilt 2500 miles ago. Spring-centered clutch was put in then.
- Doesn't have upgraded Carrera cam chain tensioners. Airbox doesn't have pop-valve safety mod.

Inspection:
- Overall the car is super straight and has very little rust. I found almost no rust on the underside and along the rocker panels and fender wells. I magneted the car and found nothing suspicious.
- The suspension had tight bushings all over and revealed no noises or symptoms on the test drive.
- Owner is tall and had the pedal box moved far back. The push-to-floor style pedals were hard to get used to. It was a really unusual pedaling experience for someone new to a Porsche and fairly awkward.
- The shift throw is enormous but the engagement was pretty nice.
- no power steering was kind of bad below 5 mph but otherwise invisible
- seat belts were a bit worn and the retractors weren't winding that well
- the dash gauges were showing their age and not very well lit.
- the headlights were quite dim, though I suspect that's just how lights were back then. It's possible that the alternator wasn't giving enough juice when coupled with the dim dash, but the owner said both had always been like that. They were also aimed too far left, imo.
- Floor mats sit on bare metal - is that normal? The floor was in good shape with no rust.
- Spare tire is totally rotted.
- Porsche tools are there. Owner has the original manual.
- Car had been driven earlier that day, so the first start on the test drive was not a cold start. Owner had never had problems with the car's warmup but he also never drove it when it was really cold.
- Owner seems like an honest guy who doesn't know much about the internals of this model.

What follows is a set of pictures arranged to convey a story of the inspection.




dime sized rust bubble under right B-pillar


small rust bubble under right door


paint chip next to trunk


dent, paint crack on right headlamp


quarter-sized rust bubble under right headlamp


chipped paint and rust on antenna hole


chipped paint and rust on left fender

This was the worst spot on any of the fenders

junk in the frunk

The amplifier supports an aftermarket headunit. The original was stolen.

continued on next post...

[kimbo305]

spilled/pooled brake fluid

The cap to the brake fluid reservoir was loose! Is it more likely the the fluid came from out under the cap or overflowed from that line there?

left engine bay

What is the orange cap? I assumed it was the distributor, but I'm not positive.

right engine bay


cracks in CIS? hose

Use the left engine bay picture for location reference. Is this hose actually part of the CIS system? I haven't been able to get a good labeled diagram of the CIS cars' engine bay. This hose could very well be for something else unrelated. But if it is part of the CIS system, I'd be worried about the whole unmetered air issue.

big cracks at the other end of the same hose.

These worry me a lot more, as far as unmetered air being let in goes.

oil/? leak right behind distributor

hmmm, can't think of what could be leaking that.

wetness/oil? beside the right head

This seemed to be water based and not oil based. Not sure though. It was a very light film. Given the car's storage and infrequent use, it's either very fresh (the car was fired up before I got there) or very old.

oil/? on floor of airbox

I was surprised to see this when I took off the top of the airbox. Is the airbox supposed to fit loosely, without a gasket or rubber seal? That's how it was in this car.

metal opening into the top inside of airbox is oily/greasy

I have no idea how CIS works but I assumed that inside the airbox is just air, and not fuel-air mixture. Would backfiring cause liquid to come back into the airbox?

dashboard


continued in next post...

[kimbo305]

detail of seat


gap between map pocket and door

Is this unusual?

long shot of wiring nest

Under the dashboard, there's extra wiring to support the alarm system and aftermarket headunit. Is this messy or on par for what exists stock on 911 SCs? The actual connections and joinings seem to be neat, but as a whole, it's awful to behold, and not really something I'd want to work on fixing.

wiring nest on passenger side


wiring nest detail under steering wheel


wood panel behind pedals

I was shocked to see wood in a Porsche. Is this really stock? The wood seems in mediocre condition.

left shot of passenger side wood panel

same kind of wood panel. looks well made and fitted, if not stock.

another shot of the passenger side wood panel


crumbled torsion bar cap

The structure of this piece seems gone. I actually forgot to check the other side, but one side seems bad enough. How bad is it that the car has been riding on it like this? I can't tell from this tutorial http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_caliper_rebuild/911_caliper_rebuild.htm whether the cover bears any load. This would be pretty expensive to get new, yeah?

Ah the good ol logo.


Things I forgot to check (doh!):
- oil level and color. It's probably in decent shape given it's driven less than 1000 miles a year and changed annually.
- wheel bearings. There were a lot of the guy's friends there staring at me crawling all over the car, and I felt a bit weird about grabbing the wheels and yanking.
- electrics. I took the owner's word that everything worked. The lights and wipers certainly did on our test drive.

As it stands, I'm pretty interested in the car because it drives really well. But it has quite a few cons, and I should break everything down:
+ updated transmission, calipers, clutch
+ new targa top
+ original owner, have whole story of car, full maintenance records.
+ wheels in fabulous shape. Not a scratch
- repainted, and rusting at the fringes
- minor mystery leaks in engine bay
- aftermarket stereo and steering wheel. (stock wheel is in frunk, but in bad shape)
- broken antenna motor; antenna is off the car

I'm not really sure how to factor in the non-stock parts of the car, but my guess at a fair price would be $8500-$10000. Thoughts?

Thanks everyone for reading through this!

[DL Lawrence]

I dunno, dude. How does a car that's "never been driven in rain or snow" have so much rust? IMO, that car has a LOT of issues, and doesn't seem to have been very well cared for, regardless of what you've been told. The rust that you can actually see is only the tip of the iceberg. Regardless of what the price was, Id have to pass on that one.

Compare it to this car-

http://dorkiphus.net/porsche/showthread.php?t=18327

With the economy the way it is, there's a lot of people out there dumping toys. Do some more looking, and take your time. A thorough PPI by a respected shop is a must, of course.

JMHO, and I have no affiliation with the ownder or the car on the link posted, by the way. I saw it on another board I frequent.

[kimbo305]

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to pass.

And yes, I always live by doing PPIs on used cars.

[Bart_dood]

You did the right thing passing, I just bought an 88 with 95k miles, similar story, never seen rain yadda yadda. Comparing my car with these pics, this white SC has had a hard life, rusty and worn a lot more than mine which is odd as it has less miles...makes me suspicious....

Keep looking and avoid this car.

[the]

Holy cow, that is one beat up piece of crap looking SC! That poor thing has had a very rough life.

[racer]

Just some things...

1) That "orange" thing is the distributor cap

2) The large hose on the left side engine compartment, with the holes, is for HEAT. It has nothing to do with the CIS

3) Rust. Bad. The "dime" size you see tells me its x10 bigger underneath. B pillar, especially at the base is a popular place for rust.. but never good. Heck, looks like they repainted right over the rust.

4) Fender rust.. on the plus side, front fenders bolt on and can be replaced relatively easily.

5) Rust on the cowl - not so good.

6) YES, wood is "oem" for the floorboards

7) Rear torsion bar cover.. looked bad, could mean bad (ie rusting) torsion bars. If bad enough, they will break. Also, under the cap should be a rubber bushing. This one doesn't look so evident at first glance. The tube itself should be centered in the bushing.

8) 911 dash underside is always messy because Porsche never made an under-dash cover! The more aftermaket stuff (Alarm, radio etc) the worse they look.

9) No doubt the sitting hasn't helped the car. It happens. Life gets in the way. Cars sit.. cars rot.

Seems like a good idea to pass on this one.

[kimbo305]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I guess I should have had much higher expectations of a Porsche owner to keep his car in great shape. I also learned a few things about what too look for in really old (classic!) cars.

I'm now trying to get a look at this car, which would be exclusively for track use, obviously:
http://www.porschatrader.com/details.php?id=16771

Having driven the SC, I'm now really enamored with 911s, where before I had never really paid much attention to them.

[kimbo305]

oops, double post.

[356six]

Check out this one if you want a SC Targa. I've seen it & driven it. Very nicely done & the price is right. No affiliation with the seller.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=423976