seeing a price drop in early 911s

[Rodney Nelson]

You guys that own these early 911s better liquidate quick, I see the price dropping on these and the demand lessening... I'm happy about it because I'm still extremely upset how I couldn't unload my 72 911E to save my life in 2000, and ended up letting it go for $8,500, not to mention at the same time I sold my 71T for $6,500, with the assumption that I could by these old 911s anytime anywhere.

Well, like so many of us I was priced right out of the market while I watched my lonely SC price stay stagnet...

Yes, I'm Jealous, No I don't want anyone to loose any money, I just want my '72 911E back, and when the prices come down and I am able to afford it again, without taking the title of my house to the local pawn shop, I will never, ever, ever, let it go again.....

Just a jealous rant,,,no offense to anyone, unless of course you are the jerk that bought my E from me!!! I want it back! (for the same price of course).

[grudk]

Dunno about that specific price, but your observations appear to be correct, and I expect collector items will continue to deflate in value for some time.

FED Governer Warsh: 'During the past several months, this domestic housing-centric diagnosis has also been subjected to a natural experiment. Among U.S. financial institutions, asset quality concerns are no longer confined to the mortgage sector. At the same time, non-U.S. financial institutions--including some with relatively modest exposures to the United States or their own domestic housing markets--appear to be suffering substantial losses. Equity prices of European banks declined more on average during 2008 year-to-date than their U.S. counterparts. Moreover, economic weakness among our advanced foreign trading partners is increasingly evident, even among economies with more modest exposures to the housing sector.... I would advance the following: We are witnessing a fundamental reassessment of the value of virtually every asset everywhere in the world.'

[Randy W]

I don't see owners of really nice early 911s selling their cars. Less than excellent examples are another story. Not only are values of the best cars not dropping that much, but restoration costs to bring cars to this level are skyrocketing. Paint costs alone have doubled in the last couple of years, and NOS parts are thin on he ground, especially for the SWB models.

Rodney, I hope you can find a '72 911E in the condition yours was in for what you sold it for in 2000. I would personally love to own one as well - it's a great car.

[Soterik]

I would also echo Randy's comments. There's still plenty of money chasing the best cars, and the parts situation appears to only worsen as the supply of rare parts dries up.

I sold a couple of semi-rare pieces this weekend to fund a restoration, and there was no quibble over price.

However I will say that I think good solid mid range cars will come down (and are already) so that it opens up buying opportunities to enthusiasts who have been priced out of the market for the last few years.

As Randy mentioned on restoration costs...they are extremely high and climbing! This alone will prop up prices on our cars (and other marquees) as bargains will be recognized by those that know how much a restoration can cost.

cheers,
Eric

[EarlyPorsche]

I haven't seen a softening in the price as much as I have seen a drop in demand. So unless a seller is facing a need based sale you probably won't find a general drop in price as much as you will find very low priced outliers that could give the impression of a price drop but it will be more like a divorce sale in reality.

You can get the car you want for probably double what you sold yours for. With the way inflation has gone in the past 8 years I would say you are up a ton of money by selling in 2000 and rebuying in 2009.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by EarlyPorsche

I haven't seen a softening in the price as much as I have seen a drop in demand. So unless a seller is facing a need based sale you probably won't find a general drop in price

I would have to agree with this to a point. I've been watching this market as well having owned several in the past with one still in the garage. l too see the demand as slowing and would also offer that we will probably see a price drop at some point probably based on "sellers of need" as referenced.

If your really dig deep, you'll find that a lot of those "collecting" these and other cars were doing so based on the trend, (it was the new hot thing to do which drove up the demand) and many were funded by the equity "trend" provided by the real estate market which has help lead to the current economic crisis here.

I think like other markets caught in the domino effect, this one will adjust too..

Regarding the cost of restorations, I guess we will see many shops or craftsmen disappear as the economies of scale continue to adjust. There will be fewer people with the cash available to support the high cost of some of these shops and there services. As stated, I do see how that would keep the value up on a car that has been previously completed.

[evergreen]

There are a limited number of good early cars out there... the often used cliche is true: they don't make these cars anymore.

Granted, the number of prospective buyers with a menu of easy credit instruments at their disposal has decreased in the last year. Some usually aggressive UK/Euro buyers are no doubt in a wait-and-see mode at this particular moment as well.

But good, well-sorted cars will still draw substantial bids from competing cash buyers/ collectors.

Unfortunately many folks are currently facing uncertain employment status, pension fund worries, and depending on their purchase timing and location--home value depreciation.
However, not everyone is heavily invested in the market. Not everyone is leveraged in real estate. Not everyone finances their hobby/collector cars on credit or home equity lines.

Recall the collector car price run-up in the late 80's, then tapering off during the early 90's recession....then back to steady escalation mid-to-late 90's and beyond.
Anxiety and emotional distress take awhile to dissipate, such is human nature.

[Macroni]

not a time to sell unless compellled.....

[grudk]

It's a market like any other. The 'the aren't making anymore' is the same argument used in real estate (they aren't making any more land). Supply vs demand is what matters. Go look on E-bay. NEVER been so many vintage Ferraris for sale. Think the 911s is different? Think again. Not saying they will be 'cheap,' but prices are already weakening. Read the latest Sportscar Market Letter... top has been called.

[Sunroof]

This is the excuse I have been looking for to keep my 1973.5T!! The market will come back because the American auto enthusiast and collector will always find a way to get his desired ride. Let the dust settle over the next year and the market will return, maybe even stronger.

Too much time, effort and money has gone into the restoration of my 73.5T. I'd rather make it into a planter before ever considering giving it away cheap!!

Bob

[grudk]

If you are a collector/enthusiast, lower prices mean more toys/ Works for me

[Mark020]

It seems to me that the sellers are asking old 'prices' which are simply not paid anymore. And yes: the really top notch cars might be sold for old prices the rest is simply not sold or sold at a lower price. People have started to rearrange their priorities I'm afraid.

[dmcummins]

I listed mine a couple of months ago. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=426108 . I got a few calls and emails but nothing serious. I wasnt in a position that I had to sell, but I guess the price was to high as it didn't. I am going to finish the few things that are lacking on the car and see what happens. I'm not sure what a good price for a good driver car is going for these days, but I would guess that if you were in a position that you had to sell you wouldn't be happy.

Stocks are down 40-50%. I don't think the 20k cars are down to10k yet. But they may be heading that way. It wasn't that long ago that nice longhood t's were selling for 10k.

[Macroni]

Marginal is what is being re-priced. Top values might be declining but only by a small percentage.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by georgeinhere

Based on? Listed prices? Do you have access to actual sold numbers? I would love to see your actual research...everything that has a "for sale" sign is crashing except pre 73 Porsches? That's funny.

While I do not have a data base representing all sales I keep [unfortunately] an obsessively close track of the market. I will do my best to post some recent sales across the early market and the impact bumper cars.

I do not understand That's Funny. What were you refering to?

We also need some of our other market followers to weigh in here. Kilodawg, Techweenie, Trader, Budge96, John Schaefer.... Though we do have quite a few very knowledgeable who have responded Eric, Randy, grudK, Onboost, Evergreen, Early Porsche, and Sunroof.

[John Schaefer]

Based upon things that I have put up for sale recently, I would say that Mac is correct. Complete cars in top shape seem to still be selling - to domestic and overseas buyers - at slightly lower pricing than you would expect to see 6 months ago. Most parts and project cars are really not moving like they used to at all. I decided to test this by pricing a few items at give away prices not too long ago. The responses I received were from individuals that, while very nice on the surface, seemed to have an almost predatory nature to them. Guess that is to be expected in today's poor economic environment.

[John Schaefer]

I have thought some more about the content of this thread, and offer this... I will be listing a VERY nice SWB coupe on ebay this weekend. It has been my personal car and it's time for it to be passed on to another. Read and look at the ebay ad, then put into your minds how much and how long it would take to sell a 911 like this 6 months ago. I will honestly report back when it's sold and for how much.

[Macroni]

D*mn John........what do you want to trade?

[kilodawg]

There will always be people with money. So the good cars will always have buyers. There will definitely be pressure on the mid-range cars but I would think those are the owners who might need to sell more than want to sell so to speak.

Market pressure might drive high end prices down a little but unless psychologically something enters the mindset of enthusiasts that these cars and this hobby just aren't worth it anymore I don't see that happening.

Now is the time to buy if you can swing it. So I'm with Mac on this one....

John great looking car. I'm sure it will be gone in a flash.....My problem is I just fell in love with SWB cars but I'm stuck with this minty M505 turbo. I guess things could be worse though
I currently have a buddy's '67S in my garage it's light ivory as well and the black stripes go on this weekend. I'll be curious to follow your auction...

[ArcticOne]

John

Please post a link for the eBay ad when you get it listed. Or alternatively list it in the For Sale section first and see what happens.

jb