Mystery Turbo in Beverly Hills

[techweenie]

Ran across this ad tonight. The price is good, but the car sure isn't as advertised.

Ever see a 930 with sugar scoops? Bright trim? Ever see a 3.3 without an intercooler?

http://www.Rluxurycars.com/1978-Porsche-930-Turbo-Coupe-96

[WPOZZZ]

My 86 930 still has sugar scoops.

[onboost]

Car is obviously an early Turbo Carrera rather than a 78 930 as advertised!

[Macroni]

If I recall correctly 1976 through 1978 Turbo cars were all series 1 turbos; 3.0L w/o intercoolers, smaller braking systems and wheels, 15 7&8s. 79 brought the 2 series turbo. There is thought that this model would not be a bad to stow away as a collectible.

That is a great car. I wonder what the mileage is?

[jwab]

Here's another ad for the car. Pretty low mileage.

1978 Porsche 930 For Sale http://www.RLuxuryCars.Com/1978-Porsche-930-96 Excellent, RARE CLASSIC "COLLECTIBLE" 1978 PORSCHE, ONLY 34,000 MILES, 4 SPEED TRANSMISSION, 930 TURBO. 300 HORSE POWER, All ORIGINAL. IT RUNS GREAT. ASKING PRICE: $23,500 Year: 1978 Make: Porsche Model: 930 Ad #: 96 Mileage: 34000 Engine Size: V6 Turbo 300HP Transmission : 4 Speed Exterior Color: Black Interior Color: Black Title: Clear Condition: Excellent Body Style: 2 Door Coupe Classic Porsche For Sale http://www.RLuxuryCars.Com/PORSCHE/4

[914agogo]

76-77 were 3.0L w/o intercooler
...78's are 3.3's w/o intercooler
he also lists it as having 300HP unless he knows that fact for sure,
only the 930/60 (ROW) had that HP
US cars and others are at 265hp ... 930/61.../62.../63

the 76-77 had 245hp and 260hp for ROW

[John Schaefer]

I think its a euro '76 w/ bright trim option and 16" wheels. Isn't there supposed to be a 'Turbo' script on the back of one of the rear seat carpets? Has the US width rear bumper pads, so it's been federalized. But when? That low mileage number is only from when the speedo was switched outto MPH. These cars are awesome, but a potential money pit!

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Macroni

If I recall correctly 1976 through 1978 Turbo cars were all series 1 turbos; 3.0L w/o intercoolers, smaller braking systems and wheels, 15 7&8s. 79 brought the 2 series turbo. There is thought that this model would not be a bad to stow away as a collectible.

That is a great car. I wonder what the mileage is?

Never really referred to them as series 1 or 2 Turbos.

However, the fist run was 75 through 77... the 75 cars being early production Euro only cars (very small #s) though a few have made it to these shores. These cars were officially known as the Turbo Carrera.

Although they have the wide fenders and the turbo charged 3.0, the suspension and brakes remained the same as the 911S of the era. It's also my understanding that the engine internals of the 75-77 Turbo Carrera were the same as the Euro Carrera 3.0 with the biggest thing being a drop in compression to accommodate the boost from turbo charging.

John Schaefer: 75, 76, and 77 cars all had bright trim work around the windows, the black anodized trim didn't show-up until 78 and faded very badly because of the sun

The early cars have bumped a little in value based on the rawness of what they offer. Good ones are hard to find as many have been wrecked as they got away easily from their new owners. Others have been either raced or updated in an attempt to upgrade them to what the 78 and up cars evolved to.

78 was a big change for the Turbo cars. The were officially referred to as the 930 Turbo. Mechanically they received 7 & 8 x 16 Fuchs, revised suspension pick-up points in the rear, at the big 917 style calipers at all 4 corners, with the fronts having floating hubs. The engine was bumped to 3.3 and the intercooler was introduced for the 1st time.. it had 300hp in Euro trim, 265 in US trim.
If you changed out the exhaust, and dumped the emissions you were back to 300hp.

78-79 were exactly the same in this form. 79 was the last year that Porsche officially imported the Turbo into the US until its return in 86.
Any 1980-85 930 in the states is a grey-market car..not that anything is wrong with that if it was properly imported.

[techweenie]

I owned a '78 Turbo, and it was pretty dissimilar to this car -- from the bright trim, bright sugarscoops, tail, intercooler, decklid lettering... Could be as simple as it being a '77. Sometimes titles will say 'date first sold' and if it was sold in '78, that doesn't make it a '78.

Look at the seats. Those are '86 and later seats. Just raises too many questions for me...

[Macroni]

Two years ago I helped a European Pelican, P930T, w/ finding a 78 in Chicago. He was very specifc with his requirements because they fit nicely inside of the tax structure in Holland. Taxes can add 100% to the cost of the car. The car had 16,000 miles but needed all the studs repaired on the 3.0L motor. As it was explained to me they were considered the first series of turbos with the intercooled cars being the second. I will try to get Eivin to chime in. He is the expert on this model.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[onboost]

I'd be willing to say that this car is not a mystery at all, just mis-advertised. It appears that the sellers don't really know all the details on what they are selling as evidenced by the engine reference as a "V6"

This car is clearly not a 78 with it's early Turbo Carrera tail, chrome trim, chrome sugar scoops, 15" wheels, and Non-IC motor.

Serial number anyone?

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Two years ago I helped a European Pelican, P930T, w/ finding a 78 in Chicago. He was very specifc with his requirements because they fit nicely inside of the tax structure in Holland. Taxes can add 100% to the cost of the car. The car had 16,000 miles but needed all the studs repaired on the 3.0L motor. As it was explained to me they were considered the first series of turbos with the intercooled cars being the second. I will try to get Eivin to chime in. He is the expert on this model.

Happy Thanksgiving!

You are correct, in Europe they are considered a 1st series as they were produced in 75.. the US did not see the Turbo cars until 76. We had them (the 3.0) until 77 and they were designated and are still referred to here as Turbo Carreras, with 78> being referred to as the 930 with it's intercooled 3.3 ltr eng.

I know it's semantics.. however I'm speaking to how the cars are referenced, most often, within the Turbo community.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by onboost

I know it's semantics..

I agree..... I like the model.....wish I could see this car up close.

[p930t]

Hello again Luke "the macaroni man".... Norway calling.

You have mixed the spec up a litle on my 78, but anyway, the car in question looks like it is a litle of everythingh but mostly series one 930 produced from 75 to august 77. sold as 75-76 or 77 model years. There where very few in 75.

This due to the series one deck lid and lettering and the engine without intercooler.

Then this car has late seats, can bee a wide range of years but to me it looks like 993 seats, ( 1994-1998)

Then the spray nozzles on the front bumper are post 1984.

The rear bumper has US large bumper guards but euro rubber and reflector part on outside of the bumperguards. Look at the read square reflector, no US cars have this.

The chrome parts are not standard on any 930. all 930's had the "black look" but i gues that you could order chrome. But who would?

Looking at the engien picture the fan assy. etc has been painted black gloss. Probably been apart and freshened upp at some stage.

I guess that the only way to find out is to ask the seller to take a picture of the VIN inprinted just behind the fuel tank and the engine no. I beleive that the original VIN sticker in the lhs door apperture (lower B post) only appeared from late 77.

If the car is original it is a 3.0L 245HP car and not 300HP, even in euro spec.

My 78, 3.3L 930 is car no. 71 made of the series 2. Produced month 9 in 1977, but was sold as an 78 . it has very differen spec. than this car.

Due to the mix of parts this may be a damaged series 1 that have used parts from different model-year cars when assembeled.

The seller is probably not an expert advertising this as carrying a V engine.

On the other side. Black on Black Turbo with original fuchs wheels-- priceless.

[Macroni]

Onboost: oops!

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Macroni

Onboost: oops!

Macroni.. : oops?


I don't think your friend has stated anything that I did not.. his observations are basically the same as mine... with regard to 75-77 cars which he calls series one and we (here in the US) refer to as the Turbo Carrera.

I too see this car as a mixed bag of parts..

I also noticed the late seats and other odds and ends that are out of place on this car but didn't bother to speak about them as I figured an expert such as you had already noticed the items mentioned and I really saw no need to address.

With regard to the chrome work on the car I believe that it was the opposite in the US with the black being special order.

Quite sure I didn't state that the 3.0 had 300hp as they did not, however the later 3.3 ltrs did, as stated.

I will again state that here in the US we typically do not use the inference of series one or two..to describe these cars. However, this is reference is used in europe. Last time I checked we were still the US of A.

Oh, and my 78 3.3 Ltr 930 is car no 12.. Opps!

[Macroni]

Sorry, should have been clearer I was wrong and the oops was an apology for my bad.... I should know better than to debate Turbos with anyone that has a moniker of onboost.

What threw me was the intercooler. My delusional thinking had all non-intercooled cars as 3.0Ls. I also thought it being a 3.0L is what let Eivin slip the car through the tax structure.

[p930t]

Jeeezzzes onboost. Take it easy.

What is it with this hostility?
We are in the same club and have the same passion. It is christmas soon and everybody should be friends.

This kind of replies only put the lid on friendly discussions.

[onboost]

No hostility man.. not sure why you would percieve it that way.. ?

Just friendly banter about the about the variences from year to year.... :-)

[Macroni]

All good here......