How do people buy from Pelican

[calling911]

I see cars listed with pics but I cant see a damn thing. I dont know if it was a all deco off all windows out respray or a tape job. Do people actually buy these cars long distance without knowing what the hell they are getting???

[Gogar]

If you see a car you like, send the guy an email or a PM and ask more questions. Ask for more pictures. Ask for whatever you want. Usually by talking to someone on the phone you can get a pretty good idea of the kind of person they are.

If you get your questions answered and you still like the car, post a "PPI Needed (city,state)" in the technical board. Someone will recommend a shop in the area. Have the owner take the car to the shop for you. At this point you're going to start spending money.

If the owner won't take his car to a reputable shop for you to have it looked at, that's a red flag, but only a small one.

If you get the car taken to a shop and get a THUMBS UP, buy yourself a plane ticket and go take a look.


All these things cost money, but if you're going to spend 10, 15, 20, 50K on a car, spending $500 on the front end is worth it. But you have to be prepared to shoot $500 down a rathole if the car turns out no good.


If you're not comfortable looking at cars on the internet and talking on the phone and emailing, I'd suggest you do it locally. Go drive 3 or 5 or 10 cars for sale in your area. Talk to people. Your people/car buying skills will get sharpened, and then you'll be a lot more perceptive when you read ads on here or talk to folks on the phone.

[cl8ton]

I bought my 930 from a fellow PP.

Saw the ad, called and chatted, he sent me many pics, drove 600mi to see it.
Had a PPI done and drove back the next weekend to pick it up!

Good advice “Gogar” gave you!

[calling911]

Originally Posted by Gogar

If you see a car you like, send the guy an email or a PM and ask more questions. Ask for more pictures. Ask for whatever you want. Usually by talking to someone on the phone you can get a pretty good idea of the kind of person they are.

If you get your questions answered and you still like the car, post a "PPI Needed (city,state)" in the technical board. Someone will recommend a shop in the area. Have the owner take the car to the shop for you. At this point you're going to start spending money.

If the owner won't take his car to a reputable shop for you to have it looked at, that's a red flag, but only a small one.

If you get the car taken to a shop and get a THUMBS UP, buy yourself a plane ticket and go take a look.


All these things cost money, but if you're going to spend 10, 15, 20, 50K on a car, spending $500 on the front end is worth it. But you have to be prepared to shoot $500 down a rathole if the car turns out no good.


If you're not comfortable looking at cars on the internet and talking on the phone and emailing, I'd suggest you do it locally. Go drive 3 or 5 or 10 cars for sale in your area. Talk to people. Your people/car buying skills will get sharpened, and then you'll be a lot more perceptive when you read ads on here or talk to folks on the phone.

Thanks.. great advice.

[rbogh901]

well. that seems sensible. how about the other end, how does one sell on pelican? what is the best way to proceed in a way that is safe for all interests without being overly restrictive?

[Jay H]

I bought an '84 911 long distance from a fellow Pelican. I never saw the car in person until Intercity Lines dropped the thing off at my door. Here's how my deal was done:

I initially inquired via email about the car on a Friday. I received prompt, additional pics of the cars along with some answers to my initial questions. On Sunday, I called and spoke with the owner for 2 hours on the phone about the car and his ownership. I took detailed notes. As Gogar correctly points out, if you are observant, you can tell quite a bit about the owner from a good phone conversation. I studied the pics I received very closely (most were very large resolution, detail shots) and reviewed all the data I received on the car and made a budget as to what I would have to spend on the car based on my 10 years of 911 ownership. The initial outlay of money plus the additional funds I thought I needed to spend fit my budget.

By Tuesday, the owner of the car emailed me back in the morning and said that he had 2 other offers on the car and was wondering if I was still interested since I was the first to inquire and make contact with him. So, at that point I had about an hour or so to make a decision. It was quite nice of this owner to keep me in the front of the line since he had offers for an immediate sale, but I had to act quick if I wanted the car.

Since I've been around these cars for so long, I knew that buying a 911 sight unseen was a risky purchase, but I also know that money fixes everything and I just plain really liked this car, even with it's flaws.

Since I liked the car and the current owner was extremely pleasant and honest to deal with, I jumped in with both feet.

I did not have the car PPI'd. The only thing I was concerned with was frame damage and from the conversation with the owner, I was pretty well convinced that the car was never hit (it was delivered with all of it's original paint). I would not recommend this approach if a person is new to 911 ownership.

Never trust anyone is my motto, but I did trust this gentleman (and Googled him to see what I could find) and we worked out a deal that I received a fax of the title and then I wired the entire amount to his bank account. He also provided me a tracking number for the envelope containing the title and I believe a set of keys. My banker darn near pleaded with me not to wire these funds to a nearly complete stranger for a car I never have seen, but again, the owner and I each trusted each other for some reason. I believe I offered to pay a small downpayment, but he refused to take that since he trusted me that I was sincere in purchasing his car.

I kept the ower informed of the time table from Intercity and the owner emailed pics immediately of the loading of the car.

The transaction was flawless for both parties and I still keep in touch with the owner of this car. I was able to meet the gentleman that sold me the car this year at Hershey and it was a treat to speak with him in person.

When I received it:


A pic from this summer:

[Macroni]

There would be few exceptions to the PPI rule.

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by Macroni

There would be few exceptions to the PPI rule.

Agreed. Don't do what I did. That is unless you really know these cars and have the ability and the desire to sink a ton of money into the car to fix what you didn't find out by having a PPI done.

[VroomGrrl]

Originally Posted by Gogar

If you see a car you like, send the guy an email or a PM and ask more questions. Ask for more pictures. Ask for whatever you want. Usually by talking to someone on the phone you can get a pretty good idea of the kind of person they are.

If you get your questions answered and you still like the car, post a "PPI Needed (city,state)" in the technical board. Someone will recommend a shop in the area. Have the owner take the car to the shop for you. At this point you're going to start spending money.

If the owner won't take his car to a reputable shop for you to have it looked at, that's a red flag, but only a small one.

If you get the car taken to a shop and get a THUMBS UP, buy yourself a plane ticket and go take a look.


All these things cost money, but if you're going to spend 10, 15, 20, 50K on a car, spending $500 on the front end is worth it. But you have to be prepared to shoot $500 down a rathole if the car turns out no good.


If you're not comfortable looking at cars on the internet and talking on the phone and emailing, I'd suggest you do it locally. Go drive 3 or 5 or 10 cars for sale in your area. Talk to people. Your people/car buying skills will get sharpened, and then you'll be a lot more perceptive when you read ads on here or talk to folks on the phone.

This is exactly the process I used, and it worked out very well. I was looking at two cars at the time. The one that was closer, the owner would not allow the car to be taken from her property for a PPI, so that was the end of that. I test drove it and it had some obvious flaws, so that was the end of that.

The other car was 650 miles away from me in Houston, TX. Exchanged info by email and phone with the owner. He kindly agreed to take the car to the mechanic I chose, which I selected based on recommendations from here and the PCA in Houston. Note I did not take the car to HIS mechanic, tho he did provide their contact info for me to be in touch with them if I wanted. They say it's best to use a mechanic who has no ties to the car, and a Pcar specialist. As noted, this is where you start laying out money. I won't lie - I paid over $500 for concours-thorough inspection, with leakdown and compression.

My PPI went great, we bought plane tickets - so close to $1K invested at this point. Again, a gamble, but the odds were looking good, so I went for it.

The car checked it out in person, I test drove it, did the deal, and drove it home. It was everything it was advertised and checked out to be, and more. No surprises. I guess you have to be willing to let go of a not-insignificant little chunk of cash in the event things don't work out. But the investment up front worked out in my case.

Good luck!
Kathy

[Gogar]

I bought my SC in Kansas City. I found the car in December, and contacted the owner; he sent pictures and a scan of a recent engine rebuild sheet. I emailed him quite a few times, and got a good idea of who he was. He was very forthcoming the whole time, which put me at ease.

I posted on Pelican to see if anyone would look at the car for me, I got a few offers, but it never really came to that. The owner of the car took it to a mechanic for me, and I got a PPI ($400) and the car passed with flying colors. The owner of the shop actually asked me 'how much I was buying the car for." Nice try, dude.

I had a special circumstance and decided I would buy the car, but could not pick it up until MARCH, (three months later.) I offered to send $500 earnest money, so he would know I was serious. If I backed out when the time came to get the car, he would keep the $500.

He agreed and I sent him the check. Mind you by this time I knew his home address, work address, his wife's work address, his home/cell phone, and his work/home email.

I went and picked up the car in March, and the guy was just great, and I still talk to him today. Drove the car 700 miles home, and it was a fantastic experience and the car is worth every penny and more.

[t6dpilot]

I think Jeremy posted the best and safest method for conducting a purchase long distance. That said, I did not really adhere to this when I bought my 71T. The 69 - yes, but I was closer geographically and more educated on early cars.

The 71 was a lifelong CA car, so it had a lot going for it just from that perspective. The owner had it for 23 years and was absolutely in love with the car. He actually backed out of the sale twice - to my broken heart (this was my first early car and I really wanted it). We talked on the phone quite a bit about his ownership and the car's history. He seemed very down to earth and trustworthy from our conversations. I know, that is a big assumption, but... he is also a pilot, which has a lot of credence in our world. He bought the car from a high school friend back in 83 and I was able to talk to that owner as well. I was able to discuss the car's history all the way back to 1973. Pretty cool...

I knew the car needed some mechanical work as a lot of these do, so I was prepared for that. My concern was rust and general condition. I only got to see a few low res photos that he took and sent to me via dial up connection (admittedly digitally challenged). What then? Pelican to the rescue. A fellow Pelican offered to go take a look for me and gave it a thumbs up and sent a bunch of pics too. I scheduled a PPI at a nearby shop, which pretty much gave it a general clean bill of health. I sent a deposit along with a bill of sale that we both signed and scheduled a truck to pick it up (I was considering driving it home, but discretion was the better part of valor that time). I am not sure when I wired the money, but I am sure it was a day or so before the truck picked it up. Probably not the wisest thing to do, but I figured what the hell, he's a pilot so he must be trustworthy.

I got the car and was very pleased (got lucky). The car did need some mechanical work and general TLC, but I got a good one from a good guy. He and I, along with the guy who owned it from 73 to 83, keep in touch and I send them pics every so often. I would not have done it I don't think without the help and thumbs up from a fellow Pelican. That made all the difference.

[K. Roman]

I usually just send the owner 100,000 dollars direct to his bank account. Then 3 months later I go and take a look. If I like what I see, I deduct the final price out of the 100K and ask for the rest back. I then drive the car home going the opposite direction until I circle the earth. I don't really recommend this to anyone though.

[gsjohnson]

I've sent two wire transfers to Nigeria and I still haven't gotten my car.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by rbogh901

...how about the other end, how does one sell on pelican? what is the best way to proceed in a way that is safe for all interests without being overly restrictive?

If you can, start by creating a website for your car. Thanks to Mac and iWeb, it can be really easy to do. I still have this one up from selling my SC http://www.lumpocole.com/doug/1978911sc/For%20Sale.html (It has sold, by the way! ) A good website with details, an outline of service history, and plenty of photos will help keep the need for "tire kickers" to bother you. At that point, only serious buyers will be talking to you.

From there, you need to be an honest and patient seller. While that doesn't mean cater to every whim of a potential buyer, you have to realize there may be work involved. And be ready to take your car to a mechanic for a PPI (at buyer's cost, of course!).

If a potential buyer likes what they see and wants to put a deposit down, that's up to negotiate. I suggest a non-refundable deposit that is large enough to keep the car "off the market" but not so much if the buyer needs to back out that he / she feels screwed. As a general rule, I tell potential buyers that the deposit means no one else will drive the car, but others may look at it (..and if needed I'll drive). I also work on the honor system and if a buyer is serious but doesn't feel comfortable putting down a deposit yet, then the car is still "on the market" and others may drive it, but before I do anything with it I would communicate that with the first potential buyer. A potential buyer who pays for a PPI is as good as a deposit in my mind.

How you deal with money is up to you, but it's not unreasonable to ensure that all monies are in your account before the car leaves your possession. I've been comfortable with depositing a certified bank check (from a well known bank) and releasing the car the same day, but that's just me. I sold one over seas and asked to wait to confirm that the funds cleared. The buyer was ok with that.

If I sell a car I also give all records and photos along with it. (On a side note, this is the beauty of digitizing records and photos...you can send the originals on with the car but have your own copies...so you can look at them later and think "why on earth did I sell that car?!?!?!" )

[nixtfy]

However you purchase I would not trust car fax. Accidents rarely show up on titles, I suspect body shop has no interest in filling out more paper work .

[rbogh901]

It probably helps to see how long they have been a Pelican. Then look at their posts. Active participation is a great sign. It's gotta be hard for a scumbag to be a member for years and invest a ton of time writing various posts without being outed. PCA membership is also indicative.