Best car to buy for circa $10-12k?

[moose8]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a porsche for a long time (especially after driving a friend's 1983 911sc convertible) and have noticed that the prices appear to be falling into the area that I could conceivably afford. What would a good car for first time porsche owner, with far from unlimited resources, be? I've noticed boxsters for around $12k, but I think I like the 911 look a lot more - and I like the cheap insurance for any car over 25 years old. I've seen a 1976 912E with 160,000 miles that appears to be in great shape for $10,300, and a 1988 Carrera Targa with 151,000 miles for $12k. Neither one has been restored or rebuilt or anything, but both supposedly run well. Would either of these be good deals? Or are they still overpriced? I really am looking for something that is hopefully fairly reliable and not too crazy expensive to maintain - I'll pretty much only drive on summer weekends. A mechanic friend is helping me, too, when it comes to actually evaluating specific cars but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask this board. Any and all suggestions are welcome. $12k is probably my upper limit. My goals are to have some fun and hopefully not lose too much money if I sell it in a few years. Thanks

[techweenie]

If $12K is your upper limit, you need to look at cars you can buy (not asking price) of $9.5 - 10K. Reason being, many Porsches in this price range have some deferred maintenance, or are coming up on some big ticket work, and the owner wants out.

912Es can be cheap enough, but some have overheating problems. At 160K miles, I would hope it had had at least one overhaul. With a good checkout, that is a $7K car, IMO.

The '88 Targa could be a better deal, especially if it checks out and has a good and complete service history. But, again, a $2K 'war chest' for possible service items is a necessity.

[moose8]

Thanks for the advice - any suggestions on specific cars I should look for or stay away from? I'm thinking either the 911sc or carrera is the one for me, but I'm also quite worried about getting in over my head.

[techweenie]

I think you're likelier to get a fair deal on an SC in your price range. SCs are very hardy cars. Use your mechanic friend to check out all likely candidates. Probably the only mechanical issue with well-used SCs is broken head studs. Be sure to check for those.

As with any Porsche, its important to look for evidence of a major collision. Unit body cars can be fixed well, but often are not.

[Brother]

I went through this the last time I had a 911. Techweenie is telling the truth. The SC is probably your best bet, but make sure you can spend around ~$2500/year for maintenance. If you don't, it will just be on an ever quickening downward spiral.

[Macroni]

You could probably find a nice SC targa in that price range. PPI so you know what you are getting.

[moose8]

Thanks again for the responses - I've been watching the 911sc's for awhile, but in my area (Boston) people are generally asking $14-16k, which is too much for me (and the ads usually say price is "firm" so I don't want to waste anyone's time when I know I won't pay that much) - I don't want to buy a car I can't check out myself locally with my mechanic friend either, so going further afield probably isn't an option. Is there anything about the air cooled carreras I need to watch out for? There seems to be a bunch of them around - is there reliability significantly different than that of the sc's?

[epbrown]

Well, I think we'd be remiss in pointing out you could get a nice 944/951/968 for that money and they'd mostly be faster, more comfortable, and handle better than an SC in that price range. The chief crime of the waterpumpers is they're cheaper to buy but cost as much to maintain as a 911.

But if you've got the 911 bug, for that price range you might try looking for a 1974-1977 car. These cars are unloved (like the 964s and 996s) but a lot have had the issues fixed with things like rebuilds or 3.0 swaps, but still run cheaper than the SC/Carrera. Here's an example.

[Sunroof]

Contain your emotions, first and foremost and understand that Porsche's can be very expensive to repair and maintain. Indeed, the SC's (1978-1983) are excellent cars and were Porsche first modern 911 with the outstanding 3.0 liter engine. In todays market many would be in your price range, but be aware that an engine rebuild can cost you thousands (how about 7K to 10K?). The next model was the return to "Carrera" starting in 1984. If your looking at a 1988 Carrera with the G50 tranny for under 12K, it has issues!!!!!!!!!!!! So, your correct to buy the best car for the dollar, but the greatest return in overall investment will be the 911 line over the water pumpers (Boxter, 924, 928, 944 and 968 to name a few).

I would take a look at the 1974 - 1977 911's that although do not have the greatest desire factor because of the 2.7 Liter troubled engine, do represent excellent value if the 2.7's were rebuilt with the necessary corrections. These are great 911's and a decent corrected (engine) car could be within your range.

I am not knocking 912's, but you will pay just as high for parts and maintenance as the 911, so why not stick with the 911? The 912's are 911 bodies but are powered down.

If you have cash in hand.........ready to buy, do you homework, research the vehicles, pay the money for a MUST pre-purchase inspection by a Porsche mechanic and take your time to find that car that you will be happy that will not be a money pit for you. If you want to check out cars beyond New England area look at the Atlanta market (second largest Porsche market next to California). Porsche here are driven year round as we do not salt our roads, rarely have any great quantity of snow or ice and are away from coastal salt spray. Porsche 911s were first rust proofed with the 1975 model. Keep rust in mind when looking at earlier cars in the northeast.

Good luck

Bob
73.5T

[GregB7S4]

I would look for a decent late SC or early 3.2 Carrera (84-86). In this economy you should be able to find one of these in your price range. Here is an example, too bad it is in Calif;

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=444319

[moose8]

Thanks again for the advice - the 88 carrera I'm looking at doesn't have any maintenance records except from very early and since the seller has owned it. It leaks some oil, and burns some oil. He guesses the valves could use some work, but he doesn't want to bother and wants to get a new car, which is why he says he has priced it relatively low. Before making any decision I will have my mechanic friend look at it, but in general is it a bad idea for a newbie like myself to start out with something like an older carrera? It just looks so sweet...

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by moose8

...is it a bad idea for a newbie like myself to start out with something like an older carrera? It just looks so sweet...

That way lies madness. your 151K mile Carrera most likely needs valve guides. The length of time the valve guides have been bad is key, because it can lead to needing valves as well. And then there are the "while you are in there" updates, like rings or new pistons/cylinders. And, of course, once you're down to the short block, it's tempting to split the case and do the bearings; perhaps chains... you're on the slippery slope. Good used Carrera 3.2 engines are still in the $6K range, so finding one that doesn't need work and swapping it into the car becomes an attractive option (especially when you consider the cost of overhauling that Carrera engine). And then you become a seller of used engine parts... which not everyone is cut out to do.

Over-reaching in the Porsche world is something that few people do successfully. As I like to say (and you can quote me) "the most expensive car you will ever buy is a cheap Porsche."

[Sunroof]

Spot on Techweenie.....

Your in the land of years of Porsche ownership and experience here Moose and the advice your getting regarding a 1988 Carrrera with 151K and probably in need of valve guides and god knows what else is right on. In reality your 12K can buy much but you need to look elsewhere and understand that the 88 Carrera engine repair could drain your pocketbook rather quickly. I would avoid it unless your prepared to drop thousands into repair!

Like I said in an earlier post, do not let your emotions rule when it comes to the purchase of a Porsche 911.

Bob

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by techweenie

"the most expensive car you will ever buy is a cheap Porsche."

Amen brother!

[moose8]

You guys are definitely scaring me straight! How about a car like this?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1192340792.html

[GothingNC]

Originally Posted by moose8

You guys are definitely scaring me straight! How about a car like this?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1192340792.html

Looks nice in the photos but the SC badge or tail does not belong.

Can't tell the paint quality from the photos.

[Rich76_911s]

Originally Posted by moose8

You guys are definitely scaring me straight! How about a car like this?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/1192340792.html

Moose 1974 cars were not fully galvanized (a zink coating to protect from rust) so be very thorough in checking for rust on an east coast car, particularly pre-76 cars. ALL east coast cars should be assumed to have rust, guilty until prooven innocent is the method I would go with.

Have you thought about a 914? I essentially bought a cheap 911, knowing it would take me a long time and a lot of $ to get it moving again. If I had it to do over again I might concider a nice 914, to drive and toy with. If you take care of the 914 it likely won't lose much in value, so when you have more $ for a 911, sell the 914 for roughly what you paid, and buy a 911. Or keep the 914 and turn it into a track car Just watch for rust on the 914 too. If I were you I'd looked beyond the northeast. I know it crimps the budget, but rust sucks, and around here cars don't come without it.

Best wishes,
Rich

[periodr3]

Car has been on and off market several times. PM me

[periodr3]

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/cto/1191172028.html
This one looks better been on and off craigslist but if it can be had close to $10,000 that would be a good buy, but PPI first

[Sunroof]

Moose, you should be cautious and follow everyones advise. Porsche 911 ownership often is a love-hate relationship! They are a car that demands maintenance and parts and labor are nor cheap unless you are capable of performing your own work. I have seen some great buys in your price range; however, they may be older SC's (1978-1980) or 911's (1974-1977). If I were in your shoes with 10K burning a hole in my pocket to get into a Porsche, with what I know after 35+ years of owning these cars, I would focus on the health of the engine....first and foremost. Get past the skin and look for a car that has been well maintained (records) and the engine strong if not already rebuilt. They are out there.

My 2-cents

Bob