Opinions on longhoods and transplants

[Bez]

After a 2+ year hiatus from pcars, the itch has returned and I'm thinking about my next car. Specifically, I'm looking for a targa from '70 thru 3.2 Carrera, though probably shy away from the 2.7 midyears. Car will be summer driver, maybe DE's eventually.

I know there are plenty of SC and 3.2s out there and am familiar with the pros/cons, values and buying guidelines for these cars.

But I've come across several 70-73 targas that I found interesting, including several with engine transplants...which leads to several questions:

- Engine transplants (3.2 or 3.0) affect on values of 70-73 cars. Worth more or less?
- How critical is install quality? Any crucial retrofit mods (I'm familiar with 901 trans limitations)
- Mechanical issues...more problems to worry about compared to stock engines?
- Is performance gain / fun factor really that noticeable? I live at 7000'

Appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks!

PS. I've searched several other Pelican forums, but didn't come up with much.

[racer]

A longhood, or a midyear, with a transplant should NOT be viewed as an investment. And any car with a transplant, out of series, would not be worth as much to someone looking for an "original" car to begin with.

Sounds like you are just looking for a "fun" car though.

With any car that is no longer "original" the quality of the work drives the cost. Someone who took a ratty '70T and through in a "mid year" 2.7 well.. that car doesn't sound like its worth much. Someone who took a really nice T,E or S and went for a "rs recreation" with say a carbed 3.0 or nice 3.2? well.. that could be a $20-30K car, depending on the quality and completeness of the project.

I wouldn't expect any more or less issues with a transplant. What makes the 911 so great is the ability to put any year aircooled motor in it. That said, updrading brakes and suspension to handle the additional power and weight should also be done.

[BK911]

If you are considering a car with a transplant, why not a mid year? Probably get a better deal than a long hood or SC / Carrera.

If I were to buy a long hood with a transplant, I would want the original engine too. Or at least the case.

[Bez]

I came across something interesting, though will require more work than what I was intending but could still be worth the trouble:

- '71 E Targa roller, clean title
- very very little rust, batt pan looks good, so do usual trouble areas; needs total repaint; all glass is good
- decent interior, all the major parts are there
- as BK911 noted above, it has the original case

Major Parts Needs
- engine & trans
- front left fender (missing) and driver door (skin kicked in)
- wheels
- likely tons of little things

What would be reasonable price to offer?

[techweenie]

$500

[deathpunk dan]

Hmm
That's a funky looking shift tower for a 71. Aftermarket?

[techweenie]

That's a 915 shift tower. Estimate for car revised to $550.

[dmcummins]

I pulled the 2.4 out of my 73 and put in a 3.2. I now drive the car alot more as it is much more fun with the added power. It also starts right up in any kind of weather and I have not had any problems since Ive installed it. The 2.4 was not the original motor to the car. So it made the choice easier.

Do you want a hot rod or a classic car? I actually sold my 72 S targa because I felt like I should keep it original as possible. I liked the car, but was always worried that I was going to mess it up.

I would love to have an original longhood, but I wouldn't drive it as much as my hot rod.

[BK911]

Originally Posted by Bez

I came across something interesting, though will require more work than what I was intending but could still be worth the trouble:

- '71 E Targa roller, clean title
- very very little rust, batt pan looks good, so do usual trouble areas; needs total repaint; all glass is good
- decent interior, all the major parts are there
- as BK911 noted above, it has the original case

Major Parts Needs
- engine & trans
- front left fender (missing) and driver door (skin kicked in)
- wheels
- likely tons of little things

What would be reasonable price to offer?

My dream car is a 71E Targa, so my opinion is a little bias. Buy it, restore it, keep it. If not, please put me in touch with the owner. I have all the parts to restore her.

[Bez]

Thanks guys, appreciate the info and opinions. My goal for this car would be resto to very nice driver w/ 3.0 or 3.2, but maintain originality as much as possible (no flares even though they look great).

I'm estimating around $15-20k to get it where I want it to be with me doing a lot of the grunt work.

Original paint is silver, but I admit to really liking grey beige.

Inspiration shots below:





BK - I'll let you know if I pass on this one.

[techweenie]

+1 for Grey Beige

There was a Grey Beige coupe on our Malibu drive yesterday, and I just couldn't take my eyes off of it. From bright daylight to 'golden hour,' that color is just spectacular.

[Bez]

Agreed. Grey Beige is incredible on the early cars and seems to really work on targas. I haven't seen it in person yet, but even the pics on this board show how it changes its look depending on lighting.

[Macroni]

My 73 3.2 T is a blast, quick and nimble, much more fun than my 87 Carrera Cab.
The cab was much more refined.

In this month's excellence Magazine they discuss the Spec 911; its lightweight and dazzling performance. They compared a 1972 3.2L PRC Spec 911 to a 2007 GT3 RS and a 2009 GT3 Cup. Great article if you are going to swap your motor. It shows you what you will end up with, a car that can run w/ the big dogs.

I used to refer to my car as a 3.2 T hotrod. Now, I refer to it as a 73 3.2L Spec 911 Street.

[Elombard]

I never drove my old 73 t with the original motor but with a stock 3.0 with SSIs and heavier T bars it was an absolute riot.

I hear the 2.7 motors are really cool because of the way they rev - similar to the earlier smaller motors but more grunt. I want to one day do mid year back dated and a properly built 2.7 that is roughly "RS Spec" but with PMOS. I think if you keep the weight down that is a configuration sure to thrill.

[Bez]

Originally Posted by Elombard

I hear the 2.7 motors are really cool because of the way they rev - similar to the earlier smaller motors but more grunt. I want to one day do mid year back dated and a properly built 2.7 that is roughly "RS Spec" but with PMOS. I think if you keep the weight down that is a configuration sure to thrill.

Funny you mention the 2.7...I can get a very nice deal on an 2.7 engine and matching 915 with low miles. But, it's a 911/44 Cali motor from '75 and I'm currently researching what it would take to get this motor 'properly built' as you put it. Any thoughts on the lower hp Cali 2.7's? Good starting point or pass?

[Elombard]

I dont know about the differences between the 2.7 motors, I think you would want a core....which is almost free and then have it rebuilt properly which is very expensive because of the mag case and additionaly machining etc....

FWIW I recieved a quote from EBS racing who I feel is a good vendor.

If I take apart a core long block, clean it up and send it too them.

They will do the following:

- provide aftermarket pistons with an appropriate CR
- new or replated cylinders (I cant remember)
- rebuild the heads with new valves etc.
- prep the crank and case (advise if not useable) as appropriate for the mag cases
- provide all new bearings, gaskets, chains and sprockets, head studs etc. as appropriate
- provide "Mod S" type cams
- rebuild distributor??? (I think)
- Provide SSI exhaust
- Provide PMO carbs appropriately jetted

All for ~$10K

then I have to assemble it.

I dont recall if they propose any port work on the heads, I dont think so. Did the RS have the same valve sizes as the normal 2.7???

Any way there qt includes almost $5K for the carbs and SSIs (a fair price) but you might be able to cut some corners, they assume all new valves etc.

This would be very close to an RS spec motor with out the expensive MFI.

I would be very aware of what you are getting into on any 2.7 even low miles if it has not been properly rebuilt....For me I think of 2.7s as cores until they have all of reliability stuff done.

[trader220]

[QUOTE=racer;4792246]A longhood, or a midyear, with a transplant should NOT be viewed as an investment. QUOTE]


None of these cars should really be viewed as an investment unless you're looking at a garage queen all original which you dont plan on driving and then only a few specific models

[Bez]

Bought the roller...got most of the original engine parts too, but will still go the 3.0 or 3.2 route. Thanks for all your help!