Faith in Excellence values

pavulon · 08-12-2009, 03:32 PM

How much (if any) faith do folks have in the values posted in each month's Excellence? If you have little or none, where do you turn for a starting point?

GothingNC · 08-13-2009, 03:23 AM

Some complain that the air-cooled market values are too high when looking for a 911 but agree when it's time to sell or for an insurance claim.

Others complain that the 996/997 market values are too low but during a trade in the values are probably too high.

Brother · 08-13-2009, 05:07 AM

If you shred the pages that the tables are printed on, you can then roll it up and smoke it. Hopefully it will get you as high as Bruce must be when he compiles them.

domimax · 08-13-2009, 05:17 AM

Excellence has a vested interest in keeping the values high. They are in the business of selling advertising. To sell advertising you must first sell the magazine. The higher the circulation the more you can charge for advertising.

WilsonTC · 08-13-2009, 08:06 AM

Who produces the website/book of nationwide auction results? Does anyone do the same for collector cars specifically? A list like that would be somewhat more useful as it indicates actual sale prices.

trader220 · 08-13-2009, 08:10 AM

Well on the readers reported transactions I generally get a kick out of them. The buyers like to indicate they got fantastic buys and the sellers appear to be able to sell above the market prices.

onboost · 08-13-2009, 08:27 AM

I looked at the most recent Excellence values and have come to the conclusion that either they are not aware of the present economy, or they are just clearly not in touch with what buyers will really spend.

I mean the prices are waaaaaay outta line!

Matt Monson · 08-13-2009, 11:41 AM

One thing I always consider when reading Excellence is that they only update once a year and that by the time we read them two months has gone by from when they wrote it. It's a very fluid market and a lot can happen in 60 days and once a year per model isn't really enough to look at anything but a macro-trend.

Bigzin · 08-19-2009, 01:31 PM

I have always wondered why they do not indicate the geographic location of these sales. I think the same car sells for more money in Newport Beach than
in Omaha.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

'For entertainment purposes only.'

Brother · 08-20-2009, 12:14 AM

There are never bad stories in the Reader's Sales section.

I have an immaculate 1986 911 Carrera in Black on Black. 75,000 miles on the odometer with turbo tie rods and a new battery. Listed for your recommended $24,000 in January of 09. I was insulted for 6 months by offers in the low teens. I finally accepted $11,500 when a PPI showed wearing valve guides and my wife said she would leave if I didn't get rid of the car.

You only see the fantastic buys and the high sales.

domimax · 08-20-2009, 05:16 AM

CPI is a much more accurate price guide.

Sunroof · 08-21-2009, 12:34 PM

I thought Bruce Anderson came up with those values, not so much the folks at Excellence. I emailed Bruce once after an early 911 market review in Excellence inquiring why the 1973.5T was not listed with its own respective market values. Afterall, it is the end of the longhood line, came with the first CIS, bumperettes, etc. Bruce responded and explained that they fell into the general 1973 model year on value. So much for that.

I have the last five years of the Excellence early 911 Market updates and see the definite trend from the lows to the highs back to the lows, but the low's are still appreciable!!

I applied at Haggerty since my 73.5T is not a daily driver. Here is what they stated about "agreed value" for a 1973.5T........fair condition 18K to 22K, good condition 22K to 25K, excellent condition 25K to 32K, mint condition to 42K. Now where did they come up with these number for 2009?!

domimax · 08-21-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunroof

I thought Bruce Anderson came up with those values, not so much the folks at Excellence. I emailed Bruce once after an early 911 market review in Excellence inquiring why the 1973.5T was not listed with its own respective market values. Afterall, it is the end of the longhood line, came with the first CIS, bumperettes, etc. Bruce responded and explained that they fell into the general 1973 model year on value. So much for that.

I have the last five years of the Excellence early 911 Market updates and see the definite trend from the lows to the highs back to the lows, but the low's are still appreciable!!

I applied at Haggerty since my 73.5T is not a daily driver. Here is what they stated about "agreed value" for a 1973.5T........fair condition 18K to 22K, good condition 22K to 25K, excellent condition 25K to 32K, mint condition to 42K. Now where did they come up with these number for 2009?!

Haggerty's now prints and sells their own price guide. I hear it is good, but have never seen one.

javadog · 08-31-2009, 12:00 PM

There are lots of prce guides out there and very little agreement on what is the "correct" value for a particular car. In my opinion, the spread of values is much narrower than it should be for any particular car, because of the huge variation in condition that you will find. I find that the views expressed on Pelican tend to be on the low side of values. Most 911 sales are outside this small group and thus the experience from Pelican members isn't necessarily representative of the market as a whole.

Also, even though the economy is bad, there are still plenty of people with money, both buyers and sellers. Given that, I think it is wrong to assume that "all car prices are down." That may be true of some cars but I'd wager most of the better cars aren't put on the market as "distressed" sales. I sold a car for 25-30% above "book" a couple weeks ago and the seller coudn't be happier because he got a car that was demonstrably better than anything else he had seen.

JR

domimax · 08-31-2009, 02:07 PM

Link to Hagerty's new price guide:

http://www.carsthatmatter.com/

Personally, I like CPI.

boxster03 · 09-01-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Link to Hagerty's new price guide:

http://www.carsthatmatter.com

Yea for a $100

And I am a client

nota · 09-02-2009, 08:10 AM

you would think if you want to buy ins they could give you a price for your car free
wHAT A RIPP OFF DEAL

Robert Adams · Robert Adams's Garage

NADA.COM has a section that gives values as well. It to seems to be all over the place, but not to far out of line with Bruce.
Of course its free as is Bruce's estimates so maybe we are getting what we paid for?

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

35 year old Porsches are not a commodity. Pricing them is subjective. I've never been impressed with Bruce's numbers. They seem to lag the market by a year or so. However, I do not envy him his job.

Use these numbers as a guideline, but with 911s selling for +/- 50% of his ranges, I really don't know how to sum up his guides other than by saying they represent one data point of many.

Accident history, rust, records; mechanical specs are all empirical value indicators. Colors and options are subjective, but have a real impact on price. The biggest + impact on price is originality. This market rewards originality and pays a big premium for it.