value - low mileage 85 cabrio

desmomini · 12-05-2010, 06:56 PM

I've advertised this casually to date (Rennlist subscribed, PCA, Ferrarichat subscribed). Wondering what I should list it for when I seriously list it in the Spring. In other words, I've been testing the waters with the hard-core enthusiast crowd, but when top-down season arrives, I'll throw it on Rennlist classifieds, Pelican, Autotrader and eBay. Currently have it for $23K, which is what I paid in Feb of '09.

Here's some ad copy I've posted:

"36K original miles, no rust, 2nd owner, over $4K in receipts from past few years, great driver, A/C converted to 134a, original Fuchs, tools, books, boot, tonneau cover. #WP0EB091XFS170360. Check out YouTube - jefhihuabi1 for video walkarounds. PPIs welcomed, of course - I can also forward you my PPI from 2/09, when I purchased this from the original owner (who moved from NY to FL and re-registered, but I've got both the original bill of sale and the new reg, both in his name, assuming anyone is concerned about provenance.) I'll work with you if you want this shipped - I've had my past several vehicles shipped, so I know the ropes."

Wondering if maybe I'm too candid in pointing out the flaws? I've always gravitated towards vehicles where the owner was honest about shortcomings, but maybe that's not the greatest marketing tool....

oh snap · oh snap's Garage

Personally I prefer sellers who talk openly about issues. We are talking about 20-30 year old cars so there will certainly be things that need attention, but to me its comforting that A) you are an attentive enough owner you know what they are, and B) you aren't trying to cover them up along with who knows what else.

Christien · Christien's Garage

I agree - more info is better. You're at the top of the market, both in terms of vehicle quality, and corresponding price. That means your buyer pool is small. You're selling in the midst of a recession. None of this is good, but it's only a real problem when you have to sell the car quickly. If you don't, you just need to wait for the right buyer to come around. Which could take well over 6 months. Don't wait until the spring market - start getting the word around now.

carjmark · 12-06-2010, 08:35 AM

One major issue to me would be verifying the very low mileage listed for your car. A 36K mile car should carry a hefty market premium, but only if a seller can document the miles.

Unfortunately, it's so easy to disconnect/change/roll a 911 odometer that without documentation I regard low odometer mileage with suspicion. You mentioned you only have service records for your ownership. Although also suspect, a Carfax etc. record showing progressive mileage helps.

As a potential buyer, my level of suspicion went way up when I watched your youtube video that showed the heel area of the carpet in front of the accelerator pedal completely worn through.

I have never seen a carpet worn through on a 36K mile car (replace that carpet!). You also have seat covers on and seat condition is an indicator of mileage. Hope I'm not too negative, but if you can document your mileage your car should be worth more to a knowledgeable buyer.

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

The car is very nice.

I think the convertible limits the car's appeal among hard core (read coupe) Pelican / Rennlist type enthusiasts. I would place an ad in Panorama magazine (PCA), the Excellence magazine web site, EBay and cars.com. This car needs broad marketing. I would also place it now as this car type tends to be a longer sale and patience is needed. I also understand from an industry insider Cabs are no sales after May in many weather dictated markets such as the northeast.

Another path would be to sell wholesale to a re-seller such as Holt Motorcars, Tru-Speed, Victory or such that specializes in low mileage casual users... I do not know what they would offer but they love cars like yours.

Again great car and IMO color; good luck w/ your sale.

NewfieMZ3 · NewfieMZ3's Garage

Extremely nice car in an uncommon color. I purchased one for my brother last spring in similar condition. It was an 88 Targa with G-50 trans, 46K, original owner, all books, keys, tools, service docs, custom cover and Bra, original window sticker.............absolutely pristine condition. Marine Blue with Linen and Navy interior. Got it for less than $23K.

I agree with a previous poster regarding carpet wear, these are very durable carpets and don't wear easily. I would be very suspect of the milage as well seeing these signs, especially on the seats as he mentioned. Milage documentation would be crucial in getting top dollar..........otherwise it is just a potentially, well-kept 3.2 with 915 trans ( which I like by the way)...........mid to high teens would be my guess depending on your desire to sell fast.

racer · 02:42 PM

Don't overlook selling on Craigslist too.. My boxster was sold on cl.. to local buyers who were basically, on a whim, to have a "convertible" for the fall. They stopped by, like it, took a quick test drive, went to thier bank and the deal was done.

Cabs are a harder sell to the enthusiast/track crowd, but even these guys are known for having more than one Porsche. Also, the enthusiast will nickle and dime you on every little nit, demand a PPI etc. Sometimes selling to someone "in the paper" makes for a lot less hassle for you and shouldn't be overlooked.

x2 on price being upper range imho, despite what you may have paid for it in '09. I personally prefer lots of really nice pics to a video walkaround.

imho, $4k in receipts is just info.. but not necessarily a helping point when it comes to selling, or something one should hope to "recover" upon selling either. Heck, if shop maintained, then I would gues 1/2 of that was some form of shop labor

SKM · 12-06-2010, 05:53 PM

Driver's side carpet way to worn for 36K miles. Rear deck carpets seriously faded from the sun. Seat covers do not help. Those odometers routinely break so low miles are suspect. Exterior looks great but hard to determine condition in a video. What does the Carfax show for miles?

desmomini · 12-06-2010, 06:30 PM

Thanks for the replies.

It never even occurred to me that the seat covers were a sales turnoff, but it makes perfect sense. I live in South Carolina, and use those most of the year since black leather is a killer in the heat. I bought them from a Rennlister - they're Wet Okole covers, a brand I used to keep from getting scorched legs back when I had a Jeep. I'll definitely remove them and snap some new pics!

Yeah, that front carpet is gross and I should've replaced it ages ago. Just ordered new stuff from Pelican. It actually looks burnt, like from a dropped lighter, but maybe it is indeed wear?

The CarFax lists 20,814 miles on 9/29/98. When I purchased it on 2/17/09, the indicated miles were 31,169. I've put 5K miles on it.

Single owner before me. Have the original bill of sale with his name, the title which was transferred to me with his name, and some service records with his name. There's a dealer stamp in the warranty book at delivery, one from '91 (12K miles), an oil change sticker in the engine compartment from '93 (14K miles), a service receipt from 2003 (25K miles) and receipts from 2008 for valve adjustment/fluids/tune-up etc. (30K miles).

Wouldn't the carpet fade in the rear be more indicative of age than mileage?

Not refuting what anyone's saying, just adding info. The PPI by Cheech at Rennwerke indicated the mileage seemed reasonable to him, but who knows?

This forum is great - it's like one of those HGTV shows that teaches you how to sell your home.

McLovin · 12-06-2010, 11:27 PM

that driver's side carpet is very odd. hard to see how it could be worn all the way through in only 35K miles.

also, you have some valve clatter going on there.

I agree with the above, if you are looking for 23K, try selling to one of the resellers. Most don't really care if the miles are accurate or not, they just care that it can't be proven INaccurate (like on a carfax, etc.) They'll "clean up" any cosmetic indications of higher miles and be on their way, probably try to get $30K+ for the car.

desmomini · 03:35 AM

Okay, i just pulled the floor mat and sat in the driver's seat to see what's going on.

That carpet hole is not near the pedals - it's set back several inches. I stuck my heel in the hole and I couldn't reach any of the pedals with my size 12 shoe.

So the question remains, what the hell is it and how did it get there? Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a burn (dropped cigar or something - the prior owner was ooooolllllldddd.....still have his shoehorn and Beethoven's 9th cassette in the front door pocket.)

In any case, I appreciate all your responses. I came here for honest feedback on how to market this sucker, and I can see:
- I've got to photograph it without the seat covers
- I've got to replace that carpet

Now, as a Ferrari owner, I know that cars of that era do have easy to disconnect odometers. Given the mileage records I listed above, are you all saying there is enough reason to doubt the mileage is true? I suppose anytime there's a gap in records ( as there is between '85 and '91, or between '98 and '03,) it's possible the odo was off.

If so, given what we know and what we don't know, what prices should I reasonably aim for - both asking and selling? This is assuming I go the rennlist/pelican/ebay/autotrader route. I'm not looking to profit, I'm just looking to move this by summer and play with something new.

Thanks in advance.

desmomini · 12-29-2010, 04:49 PM

SOLD! Thanks, all.

Mileage is king!

Helios59 · 12-30-2010, 08:45 AM

Congratulations on your sale!

I followed you on Ferrarichat when you first picked it up, and I hope your experience was good.

So, what's next?

desmomini · 12-30-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios59

Congratulations on your sale!

I followed you on Ferrarichat when you first picked it up, and I hope your experience was good.

So, what's next?

Either a new Fiat 500 or an e46 M3. Most likely, I'll get an e46 M3 until the Abarth model of the Fiat 500 is released, and then go with that, assuming I like the driving dynamics.

I like variety!

Helios59 · 12-31-2010, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desmomini

Either a new Fiat 500 or an e46 M3. Most likely, I'll get an e46 M3 until the Abarth model of the Fiat 500 is released, and then go with that, assuming I like the driving dynamics.

I like variety!

We had an E46 M3 convertible for four years. It was a great driving experience...the S54 engine is one for the ages. Powerful, smooth, and it has a great chainsaw-like snarl once you get it revving.

It's a heavy car (coupe 3400 lbs, convertible nearly 3800) but you can drive it to the grocery store or fling it around a back road and be equally happy.

Valves must be adjusted every 15,000 miles I believe...but our engine never gave us any problems. The SMG transmission was another story...avoid it and get a stick.

You can get a good one for very little money now..I say go for it!