Ebay and titles

[WANNA930]

Since Ebay has started listing cars years ago everyone has become a flipper. I have zero problem with this and on occasion have done this myself. Problem is the majority of these cars are not being sold with the title in the sellers name.

I purchased a car a couple years ago and could never get it registered because it was never signed off by the owners name on the title. It was a State that req'd it be signed in front of a Notary. I also got screwed once with the same situation but at my own fault attempted to register after I restored it. Big $$$$ lesson in life.

I have recently again tried to buy a car off Ebay and asked if the title was clear and in sellers name. The response was a definite yes! It wasn't and the Seller couldn't understand why I would not accept title since it was just never filled out by him.

DMV'S have gotten a lot stricter even with older cars. Even Broadway Title won't touch most old stuff without tons of paperwork anymore. Am I the only one that thinks Ebay should make it mandatory for sellers to prove ownership of a vehicle they are selling. Some States require a registration instead on a Title but again it is same proceedure. Every State that I know of makes it mandatory to have titled or registered in YOUR name or you do not have ownership.

There are then guys who will post for parts only. This is also illegal unless you have a salvage license. I can't understand why dealers who pay for licenses don't force EBAY into this???

This is 2010 and the old walk into DMV with a signed napkin doesn't cut it anymore.

[geshaghi]

If I'm serious about a car, I always want to know the status of the title certificate. I usually don't have an issue if it is not in the seller's name as long as it has been signed off by the prior owner. Sometimes, the DMV will require payment of additional fees and with newer cars (I think less than 10 years old), federal law requires a signed odometer disclosure statement from the seller. The key is to have all the paperwork in order BEFORE you show up at your local department of motor vehicles or tag office. I bought a car recently where the owner had the title but it still showed a lien that wasn't signed by the lender. The CA DMV didn't care as long as I had the title certificate and the car. This is one area where possession really is 9/10's of the law. The problem usually happens when you have DMV employees who don't understand title requirements in their own state or the state in which the car was titled, or you show up with incomplete/inaccurate paperwork. If the title is otherwise clear (i.e., no lien and not stolen), it's usually just a matter of extra money in order to get a new title if you don't have all the correct paperwork. Caveat emptor still applies on eBay though, so factor this hassle and cost in before you bid.

[carjmark]

If you buy a car on ebay from an individual you are taking a chance as you're at the seller's mercy. If the car is new enough to require a title in your state, ultimately ebay carries insurance to "make good the purchase price" but this is going to take a lot of time and aggravation.

After buying numerous cars on ebay I recently had a seller of an 2003 continue to jack me around for no apparent reason other than being a jerk, he took almost 3 months to send the title. Even though I had paid for and had possession of the car.

In Florida if the seller didn't finally send the title I would have had two choices: request a refund from ebay or take whatever proof of purchase I had to the Florida DMV where each situation varies (the DMV can accept my proof or they can require me to go before a judge to decide whether to issue a title).

My point is that although it may not happen often, a seller can make your life miserable, caveat emptor, it pays to know what you need and decide whether the worst case scenario is worth it.

[racer]

Its not ebays job to police everyone.. they are merely a marketplace for buyers and sellers to meet.

[PropellerHead]

I learned a valuable lesson (and it didn't cost me a dime, just my time) when I bought my 911T. The seller had a title from 1976. He signed this over to me, notary and all complete with a bill of sale, etc. Everything looked legit and he was trustworthy. I went to get the title in my name and they told me it wasn't valid because a duplicate had been made and that their records showed the most recent title for the car had a lein on it from 1982. Oh, and they took my old 1976 title! Turns out the 1976 title I was given didn't have space to add a lein (the one on it was signed off) when the owner wanted to use the car as collateral when buying something (house maybe?) in '82. So a new title was issued and the lein applied to that. That bank had changed hands several times but I was able to get a lein release from the bank since the loan was paid off in-full in 1983. I went back to the seller and got a power of attorney to deal with all aspects of the car. The local DMV didn't think I'd ever get a bank sign-off and suggested they issue some special lost title claim which would show up in the title history. I didn't want that!
It worked out fine, the seller was the legit owner and honest about selling the car to me. He appologized several times for my trouble and offered to help, etc. It took me 2-3 weeks to get it all sorted out but I have a proper paper trail now with no black marks in the title history either.
The former owner was in poor health, had I waited to register the title in my name it might have ended badly as 6 months later he was gone.

Moral of the story:
1) get a notorized power of attorney from the seller who's name is on the title. This will allow you to sign on their behalf and transfer all documents to you without them present.
2) get a signed bill of sale - check your state law for a guideline, some need to be notorized.
3) if possible, have the seller go to the DMV with you.

After this experience, I'll never buy a car from someone who doesn't have it titled in their name alone and I'll always insist on a limited power of attorney specific to the VIN in question to ensure once we exchange title for cash that I have sole rights to said car and title!

[DDDD]

Originally Posted by racer

Its not ebays job to police everyone.. they are merely a marketplace for buyers and sellers to meet.

I disagree. At the time of the closing of the auction you are 'legally' obligated to complete the sale or your ebay account is suspended and perhaps you can be legally pursued by the seller. Ebay should absolutely have clear requirements for what has to be disclosed before a auction is completed when it comes to legal paperwork like titling and liens. A standard checklist would cover all possibilities and then if the seller was lying it would negate the sale.

[WANNA930]

I agree with the above in regards to Ebay having to take better measures to assure the cars are legal. You cannot legally transfer ownership of a vehicle without a title or registration. You could have paid $100k for it it does not matter. Check the DMV web site in any state it is fairly clear. Ebays way around this is making posters list as for parts only. Problem with this is you can't do so without a salvage license. People pay huge fees to sell used parts to be undercut by someone chopping up or parting out cars. Kind of a grey area.

States like PA are also fighting the flipping issue by having the buyer sign the title and then the current owner sign in front of a notary. This way if you resell without a dealer license there is no way to transfer ownership on the title.

Hey, it goes on every day and yes for years I have also done it. It was just part of buying old cars. But just like removing vin #'s for a resto is now coming to be a problem so is ownership.

[Matt Monson]

I've been fighting this issue on my bumble bee for a couple of years now. Though I guess it would be dishonest to say that I have actually been trying to do something about it for a couple of years. I know what needs to be done to get a clean title in my name and just haven't found the time to follow through and get it handled with the powers that be. It's the only reason the car hasn't been put up for sale. I'm not going to try to pass on the title problems I've had to someone else. I'm going to make it right before the car ever comes to market. I wish more people would do the same.

[racer]

Since I am not an EBAY shopper, does one have the ability to ask a seller about the status of the title? If the questions a buyer has can not be adequately answered to his/her satisfaction then perhaps they should NOT be bidding on said item. A bit of Caveat Emptor imho.

I would never buy a car from a guys ad in the local paper, or craigslist, if an appropriate title could not be reviewed first. I see ebay as no different. I do see ebay as not wanting the LEGAL responsibility about selling items (it would extend to cars, motorcycles, boats.. almost ANYTHING that a state (or all states) requires to be registered, no?

[techweenie]

I bought a car via eBay and was promised the title, with many excuses over a period of months. Turns out not only the seller had never had the title, neither had the guy he'd bought it from. I watched buyer complaints accumulate against this guy for selling cars without titles for a couple years. eBay let him come up with multiple accounts as he continued to defraud multiple buyers this way. His tactic was to delay buyers until the eBay "window" for fraud complaints was closed.

Buying a vehicle via eBay is not an assurance of anything.

As for the 'flipper' practice of skipping title, that's most common in states where there's a sales tax on private party used car sales. Personally, I don't see the benefit I get from California for paying 8.75% on a used car purchase. So I've done a few skipped titles over the years. Other people under-report the purchase price. Either way, it's not legal, but it does mean more of what you pay for the car, pays for the *car.*