356 values??
 

Kinda curious what others think about 356 future values. It seems most 356s are owned by an older crowd. As these gentlemen start dying off, will the younger crowd appreciate them as much?

I am thinking way way down ,
I am seeing them all over for cheaper then 911 now ,

this would be interesting to track, 356's are still up there arround this area but I dont see the value holding

Theory is Correct
 

On the subject of 356 , yes they can be running out.

The same theory applies to many cars related to a certain age group, like Ford Model T's. Who wants them and there value has dropped.

The good news for 356 is they are a very neat looking car.

But they are very slow for younger buyers and become too expensive to buy and own. I love them but, don't see much growth in valves. Remember prices are based on supply and demand. The supply is low but so is demand.

I think the long hoods are very desirable now and affordable.

On the plus side is 356 scarcity. Newest ones are 46 years old! I don't see a big drop off for them. Certainly not the Speedsters or Carerras.. maybe a B notchback though;) I also imagine in a similar vein to the Cobras, since the values may not fall, you might see a rise in demand for repro/kit versions.. Spending 25K on a kit vs 100K for a genuine speedster? sign me up!

Sure model T prices have dropped, but there were over 15 MILLION of them produced.. and Model T prices are likely always less than Model A prices (a nicer car arguably).

I take the opposite tack. Why would anyone spend 25K on the REPLICA of an old, slow car. Do you take out your father's old uniform to honor him, and what he and his comrades fought for, or do you go to a surplus store, get an old uniform to pose as a veteran?

356 values...
 

I never really understood the rapid increase in driver quality "average" 356 values myself - Speedsters, Roadsters, 4 cam cars, and/or SC's in interesting color combos, sure that's logical.

A red and black vinyl interior 356B, hmmm.... no, I don't see it being worth north of $30k in "driver" condition. I think these cars will settle back into the $20k range, while the rare/odd ones (and open cars) will maintain or slightly appreciate in value.

356's are nice driving cars with lots of charm. I feel they will always have a market, kinda like most 911's will probably always have some kind of value (some more than others of course).

One thing that a 911 has over a 365/912 is the true thoroughbred flat six engine. The VW based 356 flat four is dated & slow, but still expensive to repair - which makes the purchase and operating costs versus the available performance questionable. Most 911's sound wonderful and are quick - even by today's standards.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1302656514.jpg


I do not know, I think this car is very cool...... I chased it around for three days ....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1302656767.jpg

That's a fine looking 356.....
 

but..... I'd take any of the 911's in that photograph over it as a "driver." I just feel the more common (356B's mainly) high mile and/or run down "driver 356's" are currently overpriced. As good as that 356 looks, those 911's look a bit better in my eyes - I've got to get going on my backdate!

How do you like the TDI wagen? I've got an '09 TDI wagen as well, I just finished a 600 mile trip with the family (family of 5/loaded) and averaged 41 mpg - that takes some of the sting out of the high diesel prices.

To address values for 356's you have to break them out in groups..

For simplicity.. I would look at them in terms of ...

Group 1: Speedsters & Carreras..
If you think the price of either of these is falling or will fall then you are sadly mistaken.. not gonna happen, I've seen junkers needing major restoration trading in the high $80k range and above. Hell, you'll pay $80K just for a four cam Carrera motor. I have friend that just sold his very nice above driver, but not concour Speedster for $120K

Group 2: Other open (Roadsters & Cabrios)
Becuase the other open top (the Speedsters) has become unobtainable for most, the price of roadsters and cabrios tend to be dragged up and hold as there are fewer of these around as well. Low I would say is $40K.. its all over the board beyond..

Group 3: Pre A & A
Again, scarcity.. there aren't many pre-A cars around, bent window cars are especially sought after. Regarding the A's most Porschephiles think they are the prettiest of the 356 line

Group 4: Lump the rest as other
B's and C's, primarily coupes.. these are the 356's that tend to fluctuate greatly through the price range.. I've seen some very nicely restored cars from a low of $20K to as much as $60K and of course many cheaper drivers and restoration candidates..

Group 5: 356 Outlaw cars
Modified 356's of any vintage year.. tend to be more coupes than open cars, and again prices are all over the boared and not falling. Price usually based on quality of restoration in combination with tasteful mods, such as "the Baron's" car as posted by Macroni.



BK911; Mainly owned by these guys cause many of them have had the cars since the 70's and early 80's when you could pick them up for $1500. They knew a value when they saw, jumped on them, held them and have restored many of them as they've increased in value over the years. I think there are many younger folks that would love to own these slow old Porsche.. they will get the opportunity as the old gaurd dies off. Some cars will be handed down, others will get a great bargain, and other will trade at strong prices.. as there remains a strong demand for these cars..especially in Europe.

dporsche74; You need to look closely at the ones you're seeing that are way down.. the devil is in the details

wgwollet; I couldn't even begin to picture a 356 in the same light as a Model T with regard to desireability, collectability, or useability, nor value! Not a good comparison at all. 356's aren't running out, they're available.. you just have to be willing to pay if you want a good one, be it a restoration candidate or driver.

Clearly, they ain't no 911 and as far as I'm concearned they barely get out of thier own way. However, they're a quirky-ass blast to drive, especially the modfied outlaw cars.. many of which have 911 motors in them or very tweaked 4 bangers.. and everyone you pass is pointing, smiling and giving you the thumbs-up!

Just my 02 cents worth..

FWIW, I spent 3 1/2 years having a Roadster restored to very high, but not concours standards. When I started driving it, I didn't enjoy it - just too primative for me. I decided to eat my losses (not too great - it is a gorgeous car), and sell while the resto was still fresh. I couldn't be happier with my "last of the true 911s".

Great quick course on 356s Paul Thanks. When I was in Cali I saw a 356 build w/ a modified 4 that was going to pump 200 hp.... also bad a$$

G450X; My TDI gets 33MPG around town......... best highway was on a long trip average 42MPG....... love the car!

As far as the orange outlaw it was an Gary Emory car and very very nice.......... a $1XX,XXX.00 build. It was driven by a professional race driver (Baron) when it was behind me all I would do is move to the side and let him pass. The only time the car lagged was on the straights and I still had trouble catching him..... I would definitely want this car in my garage over many early 911 models.

I have a dog in this fight since I love driving my SC coupe (the 4 banger kind). Yes, it's a weird color combo, too.

Regarding Model T's - clearly their appeal outlasted the theory that says the cars you liked as a kid are the ones you want to buy when you can afford it. My grandfather was a kid when Model T's ruled the earth... I own 4 cars that were new before I was born - I just think that the 50s and 60s were the ultimate era of the automobile in terms of styling and development.

My 356 - I can just about cane that car around and no one knows I'm at 9/10ths, except me. Try that in a twin-turbo 911... That's one reason why I like my 911T Targa so much as well. There's a time and place, and when I want to go faster, I've also got a hotrod long hood.

I wouldn't discount the 356. It's a great, great drivers car.

I would say one advantage of say, a longhood over the 356, is the driving experience is still similar to todays car. ie, synchromesh transmission, disk brakes, radial tires. Driving my dads speedster (3.5x16 wheels, 55hp, a real slow/gentle transmission, 4 wheel drums) made it somewhat harrowing. It was also exhilerating hearing that motor wind wind out.

Prices of "average" cars will always climb when the rare ones get uberexpensive. Rising tide raises all ships. Same thing happend to long hoods.. 911S's going for 100K , well, everyone with a rusty "T" thought they were sitting on $25K cars. and average drivers were asking $40K when 5 years ago they were selling at $10K.

Reason why I mention the kits is, heck, why not buy one, get the "appeal" of a real one, then drop in a 100-130hp motor with its 1600lb weight and really make it scream!

Think again
 

On boost: Remember us Porsche guys are in a different world. The Model T world is much, much larger.......15 million made but there membership is close to 1 million.

The PCA membership is only 60,000 and that's for all models of Porsche.

Let's say, mid - year Corvette from 1965 to 1967 Great cars, but most owners are over 50 and closed to 60, so there prices are hurting too.....

The rare 356 are like any collectible, they will always be worth the money to the high dollar collector......but 356 A B C. Coupes will go down, they are a poor investment.

racer; I would say there are many advantages of the long hood over a 356, thus I don't really see how one can compare the two together.. I have owned/own both.. and I would only compare the 356 to a SWB 911 and only in terms of handling and possibly the primitiveness.

Regarding the rise in prices.. the rare cars are in a class by themselves and thus do not affect price as much as the lack of availability of "average cars" again, we're talking 356's here.. not long-hoods, and it is a very different market.

wgwollet; Yes, we are smaller in number but larger in real world usage.? Thus I can't see or don't recognize the comparison to or with the Model. Neat car, historic for sure. However you can still drive a 356 in today's traffic etc.. where as a Model A.. uhhh not so much.

As far as investments go.. there-in lies the problem.. too many people look at these vehicles as investment instruments.. when you do, you will probably loose at some point. If you make some money you probably got in at the right time and good for you.

I seriously doubt 356A & Pre-A coupes will be going down.

production :

356 coupe / 6,291

356A coupe / 13,016

I sold my 356 last summer. I think they are boring..............really boring. I tried to like them but listening to that little engine on the freeway drove me crazy/er.

I didn't know which direction a piston would shoot out........left or right.

Oh'............I'm one of the old guys.

Interesting...
 

I've heard this before. The air cooled 911 engine is a work of art, and (other than early SWB versions, but they have their fans as well) the LWB 911 chassis is sorted enough to be pleasurable in today's motoring environment. Outlaw specials not included, I'm talking about mostly original cars.

IMO, DRIVER QUALITY normal 356's are currently overpriced. Sketchy (bordering on rough) driver's above $25k is silly when you can get into a decent LWB 911 (or a really nice SC/Carrera) for a similar price.

I'm not bashing them, I like the little cars. I wish I had a barn full of rusty hulks that everybody seems to be searching for these days! I think maybe the vintage feel and charming interior, as well as exclusivity (when's the last time you saw a 356 at other than a club meeting?) have kept 356 values up - who knows, maybe they'll keep appreciating! Many people value exclusivity, and 911's are not exactly rare these days....

Again they aren't the fastest/most powerful things out there.. but for most that own them they aren't the only toy in the garage either.


And again, I can't see why people keep trying to compare 356's to 911's. Other than comparable money being spent the two cars don't match-up any other way.
Thus the person who want's a 911 doesn't look for/or buy a 356 and the same for the person looking for a 356.. he doesn't buy a 911. The guy buying the $25k 356 driver probably doesn't want/or already has a 911.

Regarding "today's motoring envirnoment," most of today's roads are a lot more liveable than when the 356 and/or the SWB were new, sans the number of SUVs and crazies talking on cell phones or texting.

The vintage feel and the charm is exactly part of it.. as well as the exclucivity for some. 911's have their niche as well, what do you think happend with the long hoods and the "S" cars a few years ago? All of a sudden everyone had to have one and every old 911 found in a barn or a field was for sale for much more than it was worth.. why, exclusivity, charm, and not the everyday Porsche that the masses own. Hey, so now you're special.

I'm not bashing either.. I feel fortunate in that I own, and have owned both.. and again will still say, 356s and 911s are not to be compared the same in terms of value, and/or peformance. They're really from two different eras, command two different markets, and appeal to two different mindsets of buyers.

Hey.. not sermon, just a thought! :D