US Carreras (74-77) - Why So Much?

[Doug&Julie]

I'm a little confused as to why I'm seeing US Carreras ('74-'77) that are priced in the $50k range? I might understand if they're, for example, a European '74 Carrera that has the 2.7 MFI motor of the world famous '73 2.7 RS Carreras. But in US trim, they're merely a mid '70s 911S with fender flares, a ducktail, and a decal. Correct?

Is it the rarity? The collectability? I just don't get it...what am I missing?

(I admit, I could just be bitter because, not 10 years ago, I could have bought one for $10k. I didn't because it had rust in the front trunk and the seats were a little worn. Otherwise it was beautiful and ran well. If I'd known they'd be worth $50k now I'd have purchased it and easily paid for the fixes!)

Would love to hear y'alls thoughts.

[McLovin]

I agree, it doesn't make sense, given that the US Carrera was nothing special mechanically.

My guess is it's somewhat tied to the crazy rise of '73 RS prices. Not too long ago, those were $75K. Now there have been sales at what, $250K+?

It seemed like once '73 RS prices went through the roof, the '74 Euro Carreras (which used the same engine) started going very high, too. Because previously, none of the big bumper cars, including the '74 Euro with the RS engine, had huge value.

Once the '73RS went way up, the '74 Euro Carrera doubled. They were $30K cars, then went to $70-80K quickly.

My guess is the US '74 Carrera has somehow managed to coat-tail on those cars a bit.

I agree, though, it doesn't make sense, since it is basically just a "paint and sticker" model. I could see paying somewhat more than a regular '74 US S, but not 5-6X the amount.

Ultimately, I think people pay it because they believe it will be worth even more in the future.

[techweenie]

Are they actually selling for those prices, or is it just wishful thinking on the part of sellers?

[Nate2046]

Porsche is one of the few manufacturers with the ability to make 'Collectors specials' that people actually buy into. Is there really anything that special about an M491 car or a 911 Speedster, how about an RS America? Porsche can get away with throwing some flares and stickers on a car or removing the stereo and a/c and charging a premium. We can debate the merits but people will always pay up for those 'special' cars because they are rare. I'd rather have an early Turbo then a '74 Carrera and at current prices, I probaly will

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Are they actually selling for those prices, or is it just wishful thinking on the part of sellers?

Yeah, not sure. I see them advertised for this a lot, but not sure how to find out of they've sold that way. I doubt it...but I've seen enough that they must be going for higher prices somewhere?

I get the collectability thing...I really do...but I guess it's just hard to swallow when I could replicate the car (exactly, in fact) for under $20k.

..or maybe I'm just venting because I'm Porsche-less and it seems the cars I want are just out of reach at the moment.

[Nate2046]

While I can't justify the premium people are asking for mid-year Carreras, I find it even more surprising what people are asking for modified cars. The only way these cars can hang on to even marginal collectibility is in absolutely original spec. Yet people are asking huge premiums for cars with non-original engines, flares, paint, etc. I understand the reasoning behind the mods but at that point they become nothing more than hot-rods and should be priced as such. For example should a '75 Carrera with 930 flares and a 3.6 really command a premium over any other mid-year with the identical setup?

[porschecab]

Being the owner of a 1975 Carrera, numbers matching car, all in perfect as can be shape - minimal rust (which has been repaired) I can not see these cars being worth more than $25,000 to $30,000.

Modified they are valued (to me) no different than a 1975 911S, $7,000. Put the numbers matching motor/trans, without body modifications and rust - in good running shape, gets to that $25,000 to $30,000 range.

In defense of the 1974 and 1975 Carreras, I will say this. Rust killed alot of them. Where the rust didn't, the 2.7 without cooling did. Again, we are talking about NUMBERS matching cars.
I am going out on a limb here, but I would bet there are no more than 50 actual numbers matching 1974/75 Carreras around. They only made a few thousand between the two years. Does that make them desirable? Only to collectors. Is there anything special about them, performance wise? No. With less than 100 and more than 50 with the ORIGINAL motors and trans - does this make them readily available? No.

Go find a correct one - clean, numbers matching and try to spend less than $25,000. You won't.
Are there better cars for the same price or LESS? Indeed. I will take it to the extreme here - a 1997 993 is a faster, more refined car than a 1975 Carrera, but can always be found for less.
I would not trade my '75 for a 993. Never. I can find a 993 any day of any year. There are alot of cars you can find any day of any year. 1974 and 1975 Carrera's are not those cars. That makes them worth something to someone.

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by porschecab

That makes them worth something to someone.

Agreed. Your post makes a lot of excellent points. Beautiful car too BTW.

[carr914]

Wish I hadn't gotten rid of my 74 Euro Carrera ( at one time I had 2 of them, 1 was really just a parts car it was so rusty)

[techweenie]

I remember seeing the '74 Carrera appear at dealers (yes, I'm that old). First one in Sunnyvale's showroom was a Peru Red coupe with black stripes. It was very tempting.

[sm70911]

Are there better cars for the same price or LESS? Indeed. I will take it to the extreme here - a 1997 993 is a faster, more refined car than a 1975 Carrera, but can always be found for less.

But not a one of them would be such an awesome color, with the singular beauty of the IB body style. Fantastic car Porschecab. Massive respect to you for keeping it as OG as possible
[/QUOTE]

[hcariss]

SM, Nate Couldn't agree with you more. Porschecab that is a beautiful car. If its possible more pics please.

[vracer]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Are they actually selling for those prices, or is it just wishful thinking on the part of sellers?

Sports Car Market puts together a number of different price lists varying from actual confirmed auction sales to informed professional assessments. These assessments include insider info on non-auction sales.

I'm not associated with SCM etc., etc., but of all the car mags I regularly read, it is my favorite.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by porschecab

Go find a correct one - clean, numbers matching and try to spend less than $25,000. You won't.[/img]

Please understand I'm not saying they aren't worth more than a garden variety 911S...like I said, I understand the collectability value. But because, other than being collectable, it's really no more than a 911S with better dressing, I'm surprised people think they're worth 2-4 times as much (depending on where you value a clean, original 911S). $25k - $30K for a numbers matching original? No problem. $50k? Mmmm...not so much. IMO, of course!

Beautiful car, BTW.

[dienstuhr]

Beautiful car you have there, Porschecab - did you colour-change it or is that the original colour?

Cheers

d.

[WANNA930]

Because they have the "Look" most want and it is original not added on. You could easily buy a perfect 75 911 and throw on the bits but it is a fake and to most that would drive them nuts.

They are an affordable for now specialty version of the 911. What else is there in that range?

[leecarrera]

Besides originality (maching numbers, paint, interior correctness) the other variable is condition. The implication on this thread is that a 911 or 911S is an inexpensive Porsche and the Carrera's are 2x or 3x of that amount. So if you find that 911 or 911S in excellent original condition what are you going to pay for it. I have seen quite a few now that are in the high teens or low 20's. Granted these are very nice original cars and if you find a Carrera with these attributes you are going to pay 30k to 50k for that car. I think it becomes an unfair comparison if you find a well worn 911 or S maybe with many changes to its original condition for a low price and then compare that to a Carrera that is in original condition. I have seen some pretty cheap Carrera's for sale and they have not been "nice original" cars and these can be bought for not as great a premium as the great condition cars. We are talking about vehicles that were made 36 or 37 years ago so many are well used although it seems many of the Carrera's were considered special by their owners and have been kept in exceedingly nice shape and their originality has been preserved.

[alwaysflat6s]

To add another point of view: I pretty much agree with a lot that has been said but ....

I owned a 75 Carrera and now have a 74. Both running tweaked 3.0 SC engines. I also have driven 100% stock 2.7 CiS '74 Carreras.

NO one has mentioned what makes them special: Driving them! People are so caught up in "value" and collectability that it seems most guys have forgotten that these were built as ENTHUSIAST cars to be DRIVEN. I have owned a ton of earlier 911s and there is no comparison to how sweet these are to drive compared to a 74-75 911/S.

People don't seem to realize that the 74 has both the early heat exchangers [makes quite a difference] as well as short gears. Combine this with that extra rubber on the rear [really needed if the car is actually USED] and you have a car that performs far better than a 74-75 911. I admit that I was surprised when I drove the stock 74. Even with this 2.7 CIS engine it was a lot of fun to drive. I would even call it "spirited". I would have bought it if someone hadn't already had first dibs on it.

No, they won't tear your head off if they are stock. Yes, they are special. NOT just a stripe job as a lot of people seem to think. You need to remember what was going on in the day. It was the only way that Porsche could sell the Carrera in the USA. They basically substituted the CIS motor for the MFI. I will emphatically state that the 3.0 CIS powered examples [yea, swapped engines] using the early heat exchangers perform as well.. and in some respects BETTER than the 2.7 MFI cars. I have owned and enjoyed all of these.

I think the MFI cars now are too expensive relative to the performance they offer. Yes, they are THE collectable one if that is what is important to you. To me, the great thing about the MFI '74 Carrera... before it got so expensive.. was that an enthusiast could lighten it up a tad and have a "poor man's RS".

I haven't compared a good stock 74 CIS Carrera back-to-back with a stock 72/3 S. My ownership of examples of these was too far apart to be certain, but I believe the Carrera would prove to be the road burner of the two... whatever that is worth to you. To me, that is everything.

BTW, for those of you that are hung up about "matching numbers', I do understand if you are approaching this from a collector mentality. Personally, the performance and durability gains attained by upgrading to a far superior engine greatly outweigh being able to claim "matching numbers".

Either way.. enjoy the cars!
JR

[porschecab]

Dienstuhr - it is a color change, of course by choice.

Alwaysflat6's - your points are well taken. I drive my car, hell, I track it. The stock 2.7 with the 7:31 did well at Sears Point and Laguna Seca. After tracking it a few years, and without ANY leaking on the motor, I removed the motor/trans for a 3.0l and LSD. "The numbers matching motor and trans" sit in the corner of a shop. Collecting or just driving, there is something to be said for a car that there are very few other like, especially knowing how fast the walls at Sears Point, coming out of 10, are. There is also a 'coolness' in having the stock motor in the car. It is exactly as Porsche designed and sold the cars 36 years ago, and if I remember correctly, was the fastest production car in 1975 in the US. A 1975 3.0 doesn't hold that title.

I have just about finished a 1969 that will have a 1997 3.6 Varioram. Once this is done, the 1975 will likely see the 2.7 stocker again. At that point, my sphincter will be a bit tighter on track than if the car had the 3.0. (:

[Doug&Julie]

Originally Posted by alwaysflat6s

NO one has mentioned what makes them special: Driving them! People are so caught up in "value" and collectability that it seems most guys have forgotten that these were built as ENTHUSIAST cars to be DRIVEN.

I don't think anybody will argue that! But this is the Porsche Marketplace Discussion Forum, so the topic at hand is about values, etc.

FWIW I've owned a few 911s myself. While each was (a little) different, they're all special to drive. None more so than another (although I definitely had my favorites). What I've been trying to figure out is why one model is three - four times what I think they're worth. The '74 I owned was quite a hot-rod (built by the PO) and I can just about guarantee it drove the same (if not better) than a mid '70s Carrera. Bought and sold it for under $15k.

Man I wish I didn't have to sell that thing....