Crack Smokers or Market Rebound?

[dienstuhr]

Flicking through the latest issue of "Panorama" I arrive at the classified ad section...

There seems to have been a steep increase in asking prices for mid-year cars. A few notables:

1977 Targa - 112K miles - $26K

1978 SC - 102K miles - $17.9K
1980 SC - 30K miles - $35K
1981 SC - 58K miles "10-footer" - $19.3K
1981 SC Targa - 133K miles - $21K
1982 SC - 134K miles - $18.9K
1983 SC (cab?) - $24K

1985 Coupe - 120K miles - $19.5K
1985 Targa - 87K miles - $25K
1985 Coupe - 74K miles - $25.5K
1987 Targa - 164K miles - $23.9K (!)
1987 Cab - 78K miles - $29K
1987 Coupe (no mileage listed) - $38.9K (!)
1988 Targa - 83K miles - $25K

The average asking prices for 1974-77 cars was $29,380 ( a couple Carreras in there); for 1978-83 cars, $20,168; and for 1984-89 cars, $26,571.

I'm great with this trend, as I bought my '85 with 120K miles in early 2010 for $14K. However, it looks like if I'd waited a year I'd have ended up paying several grand more.

Which brings me to the question: are Panorama advertisers smoking crack, or has the market rebounded to the point where these may be reasonable asking prices?

Cheers,

d.

[andyt11]

These people obviously don't want to actually sell their cars. Just show off that they have them.

I know where there is an SC for $40k !! Very reasonably priced!

[David W]

I have seen a big jump in prices recently, I would say in the last 5 months or so. I am interested in another 993 and the prices have jumped 5-8 k at least. I have even seen 993 with 50k mikes in the 40k plus range. This is because the later (99 on) 911's are plastic junk. I know as I made the mistake of buying a 99 and 02 996. I sold the 02 and bought my 97 which is nicely appreciating (unlike the 02 which is dropping like a rock).

Pano prices are always more that the market, that is the tariff of buying from a club member which can have advantages. I think the prices of the 84-86 cars listed are way high. The 87 on g50 cars are more collectiable, especially an 89 but are also high. But there are deep pocket guys who will pay more to buy a very nice car that does not need work and has well documented history. I depends if you want to collect or drive. My 993 just turned over 50k and so I will try to keep the mileage to 5k a year or so. I have other high mileage 911’s where the mileage really does not matter. But the guy with the 1987 Targa - 164K miles - $23.9K (!) is dreaming.
So IMO the low mileage cars are appreciating, but if it has over 100k miles it think its collectability is greatly decreased.

[Yorkie]

Just sold my '79 Euro SC for $10.5 in under 22 hours on the LA Craig's list. The car was mechanically excellent but paint was rough. Phone never stopped ringing and I wonder if I should have asked more. Tried to sell it a year ago and got hardly a nibble.

I think that the freefall of 2008/2009 has disappeared for most folk and unless you are in a Govt job you are safer now than a couple of year ago.

[dienstuhr]

@andy

There is a local-to-us '84 Turbo in the Pano, with 70K miles, at $58K...

[andyt11]

I think thats the one I saw for $60k

He must have decided that $60 was too much and that knocking $2k off the price would make the difference!

[techweenie]

Asking prices in Pano have typically been delusional.

But the market did rebound in the past 6-9 months, especially for the 3.2 Carreras.

[speednme1]

Unfortunately some are smoking something..I have been casually looking for a 930 and I can tell you some people live in OZ with Dorothy. I believe you have two kinds of sellers. The first one really wants to sell the car and prices fair, in order to move it. The second prices it to attract no one. Just probably loves to talk about the car, because only a fool would purchase such a vehicle. Don't get me wrong there are some exceptions to the rule. Rarity is one I can think of. Plus if your going to ask some ridiculous price have the credentials to back it up. All records must be intact, all stock items present and must past a ppi with flying colors. In other words close to concours quality. Just because one sunk in 60k of mods into a car does not mean that your car is now worth $80k. A person realistically either wants to sell something or not period.

[WANNA930]

I think there are a lot of sellers who are seeing truly perfect rare examples being sold at probably a discount and feel theirs should of course sell for the same amount.

I totally agree with the moded version pricing as it is 1 in a 100 that are actually done right and probably 1/2 of those that are done in a way that it won't effect pricing in the future.

If you have a gaurds red 911 with 215k miles, tan interior you are not in the above group.

Also if you car needs some paint or some interior work and kind of leaks deduct 40% from what you were asking.

Then again there is no harm in asking anything as EBAY has proven that you never know!

[Elombard]

What kills me is people that advertise modded cars that are very nice but not 'low mile early s's' with concours resto and they ask 73 RS money. And I see the add and think wow thats nice, they must have a lot of money and its not a big deal to sell...then they bump the frigging add twice a week and start sounding almost desperate to sell!!! I mean cmon how many people have over $50K sitting around for a car that is not collectable or even fits in a race series! Ask whatever you want but if you really need/want to sell spend a few minutes figuring out what the market is.

[racer]

MIdyears have been rising for a while. I think some is "euro" driven as many have been priced out of longhoods there as well and are looking for consolation prizes, as well as more "tax friendly" vintages.

SC/3.2 asking prices have crept up, but it doesn't mean they are selling at those numbers (yet?)

imho, it only gets harder, every year, to find an unmolested example of ANY of these cars.

Almost all have some form of update.. or they've "been restored" etc. SC/3.2 are popular as race cars, DE cars, AX cars, Weekend cars, and soon to be "collector" cars.

I think also that "new" porsche owners, ie, 996/986 and newer models, are learning of the appeal and "rawness" of earlier cars and are searching them out as well.

[wgwollet]

I think most comments are true. I think some sellers are proud of their cars and are asking some odd prices. Excellence magazine for September talks about good Turbo deals on the 996 I think, good article.

I think yes, hard to find nice 3.0 and 3.2 cars are holding very strong under 65k miles. The 100k cars seem to be great buys if you understand what maintenance was done on a regular bases.

It's very interesting because Porsche made many mid- year cars, but I still think that a G50 1987-89 coupes are great and a good 930 can be a very good investment.

Good long hoods are getting very hard to find. But haft the fun is looking and I pick up a nice 73 coupe, under 20k. Very happy and lucky.

[mrbeverlyhills]

Just try and find a good clean 964 C2 5 speed coupe in an interesting color these days. 993 6 speeds are getting scarce too as prices came down into the high 20s low 30s.

[whiterabbit]

No question low miles 1974-89 are going up big time.

IMHO the best investment is an 84-86 with the different sports seats in an unusual color.

[shlobeck]

Interesting conversation... I completely agree with the lack of all original, unmolested cars... I searched for an US 86-88 930 (no '89, hydraulic assisted 5 speed not for me.) for a 18 months before I bought a meteor/full lthr '86 930, 38k miles for 40k...But it was interesting how many sellers expected me to pay for there "upgrades" and they didn't even have the original parts. For so many cars I would start adding the price for all the original parts i needed to buy..That's if I could find them..Accidents, no documentation were also turn offs.. It was never worth the asking price for me to search for an original intercool or radio, let alone stock Fuchs 7/9s..Im very happy with the car but it was a lot of work searching for an all original car.. I wasnt looking for a deal i was looking for the right car...My experience during my search is low mileage >50k all original cars *(US 74-89 911/930s) sell at a premium and usually fast..nobody's stupid, excellent examples are hard to find. And in this market only the strong will survive...

[twin plugged targa]

I think classic unmolested cars will always increase in value.
I am hoping so as about to sell my 911T!
In a depression/hard times, the 1st things to be sold are 'toys'
Porsches seem to fall into this catagory.
That said, the immaculate/concours original old cars are more akin to expensive paintings and works of art, fine wines - all of which are doing quite well as investments.
People are moving away from volatile stocks and shares(after losing the shirts off their backs) and going to something solid - they can touch and 'drive'

Maybe classic /rare/concours/ Porsches are the next good investment?
Anyone buy it?

I am sure 10yrs down the line I will be kicking myself for selling the 911T in favour of keeping the modified '87 930
rgds Ben

[nixtfy]

Nice examples with rare options will always sell for a premium. The others sellers might just start lowering their price come winter time.

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit

IMHO the best investment is an 84-86 with the different sports seats in an unusual color.

Keep your eyes on the prices of first gen C4s. The issues these cars had when new were overblown and most that needed it have been sorted by now. The 89-93 AWD system is robust, reliable, and arguably better than that fitted to the later cars, plus... first generation. Old school looks, still air cooled, potent motor, prices recently quite depressed... The stage is set for appreciation.

[Matt Monson]

I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch. I think the 964 C4 will languish behind all other air colled 911s for many years to come...

[GregB7S4]

Agree w/Matt, I do not think the 964 C4 will ever shake its red headed stepchild status.