Honest feedback on my 87 Targa Price

[RichHawk]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/635040-1987-carrera-targa-911-brand-new-engine-new-suspension-kansas-city.html#post6321093

Waddya think?

Zero Rust, looks great from 3 ft away, Beautiful New Engine, new and upgraded clutch, new Sport Bilstein Shocks.

Is my $20K in the right ballpark?
So far no one is beating down my door to buy it, just a couple nibbles.

What price would it have to be to get it to be irresistible to someone looking for a 911 of this vintage?

Thanks,
Richard

[vwsamba]

SC's seem to have taken a big hit lately. if you want to sell it eventually i'd say $15k tops. $12k if you want to sell it ASAP. GLWTS

[85258]

I am no expert, but I am shopping for a '78 thru '89 Targa. I am not a fan of black so I am not interested in your car. All that said, I think your price is high due to mileage and interior condition. An ask in the $17s maybe more realistic?

[racer]

Didn't see.. How many total miles on the car?

Also, those look like 6x16 and 7x16 wheels, not 7x16 and 8x16 wheels.

Seats are hammered. Its an instant visual que any buyer will see. In my mind, I'd be thinking "heres the first $500-1000 Id invest to repair/replace the seats" and then maybe door panels (they look dirty, worn and missing some speaker covers

Funky mod to the rear valance to make the dual outlet exhaust fit.

To me, it looks closer to a $15K car than a $20k car.

Odd that the lock surrounds and door latches look all funky faded.

Any shots of the engine? Trunk? Battery area? Rear seats?

Also, what are the markets like where you live? If local markets are slow, it gets tougher to move. Being in KS, may make it less geographically desireable to those farther away, which means they might look for a bigger discounted price.

[DCinVA]

I looked at your add last week, and it seems like a nice car. It did strike me as odd that it has a brand new engine, but not a single pic of that shiny new flat six.

As far a price, 20k might be a bit optimistic.

Good luck.

Dave

[sm70911]

Your engine rebuild thread is interesting, but TBH I think $20k would be well sorted coupe money in this market.
Agree with the other posters I would think about sorting the really annoying little things : Seats & the heater box. Also the speaker cover replacement is a no brainer just to improve how the car presents
One question : I'm not sure if its camera flash but your pics show how discolored the door controls are. Perhaps some vynilex might help clean those up ?
Overall I like the cars color combo and you put a lot of effort into the motor, but I think as its presents now I would expect mid teens.

[RichHawk]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll admit to having rushed getting the Ad up. Not that I've rushed a single thing on making the Porsche better than when I got it, but there's always a list of little things that could be better.

I guess my error was in expected people to read the engine build thread to see pics and details of the engine.

I'll post pics of the engine (Top and bottom) this weekend, and immaculate Battery area, and rear seats.

I'll put the stock speaker and grill back on the door. The faded lock handles I'll get looking better too.
There's only so many things I can do at a time. But if shiny black lock rings make it for someone, well by all means, I'll get those looking better.

I guess I was hoping for someone that didn't mind tinkering on the little things to make them better (Like replacing or recovering the seats). Someone that saw the value of a strong new core of the car: The upgraded engine and drive line and suspension bits.

If a G50 3.2L car with 100K mile engine and suspension brings $15K-$17K, I thought for certain all the extras I spent on getting the engine, and clutch perfect plus making the suspension better would raise the value by maybe half of what I spent on making it new.

Updates this weekend. Again feedback appreciated, I'll re-write it with better details, better pictures, more detailing.

Richard

[KNS]

You'd be surprised that little things like the door handles on the lock surrounds looking like crap can add up to a turn-off. Along with the seats, the door dings, etc.

Those plastic interior pieces are cheap but it really improves the interior. Call a paintless dent guy and get the dings out. If you really want to move the car drop some cash and get the seats re-done.

You might find someone who would like to tinker with all that stuff, just not at the price you're asking.

[rw229]

It's a tough market out there and every little thing to make your car stand above the rest matters. Even with everything that has been done, the cosmetics will be an issue for most buyers.

Here is a relevant comp with lower miles, a recent top-end and a nice interior that was on Pelican not too long ago for 19k.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/626651-fs-1987-carrera-targa.html


It's now for sale by a dealer. (more pictures)

Porsche : 911 | eBay

(I hope this is helpful)

Originally Posted by RichHawk

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'll admit to having rushed getting the Ad up. Not that I've rushed a single thing on making the Porsche better than when I got it, but there's always a list of little things that could be better.

I guess my error was in expected people to read the engine build thread to see pics and details of the engine.

I'll post pics of the engine (Top and bottom) this weekend, and immaculate Battery area, and rear seats.

I'll put the stock speaker and grill back on the door. The faded lock handles I'll get looking better too.
There's only so many things I can do at a time. But if shiny black lock rings make it for someone, well by all means, I'll get those looking better.

I guess I was hoping for someone that didn't mind tinkering on the little things to make them better (Like replacing or recovering the seats). Someone that saw the value of a strong new core of the car: The upgraded engine and drive line and suspension bits.

If a G50 3.2L car with 100K mile engine and suspension brings $15K-$17K, I thought for certain all the extras I spent on getting the engine, and clutch perfect plus making the suspension better would raise the value by maybe half of what I spent on making it new.

Updates this weekend. Again feedback appreciated, I'll re-write it with better details, better pictures, more detailing.

Richard

[racer]

Its a very competitive market out there. People aren't cashing out Home Equity lines any more. I think most buyers are "cash" only, so you better have the best product for the price. At $20, a potential "porsche"buyer can choose between 914, 944 series, 928, Boxster, even 996. I'm sure some 964s come close too. That is a HUGE amount of competition, and some of it gets you a superior car.

to many "first time" owners, it IS the little things. Someone buys this car and goes to impress their friend, the first thing they will notice are the "little things" you come in touch with. While to you the lock bezel and torn seats arent important, to a potential buyer they are. I can't impress enough that good pics, and a good vacumn/wax/detail really helps present the car.

As for motor work.. imho, yes, having a well documented motor rebuild is a plus. BUT, I can't say it adds an over amount to the price. Sad part is, you can spend $15K on a motor rebuild on a car that was only worth $15K to begin with.

I also think the market treats Targas as a stepchild. Folks will fawn over a Coupe or a Cab.. not sure I've seen too many fawn over a targa.. and that impacts prices too.

[vracer]

Originally Posted by racer

not sure I've seen too many fawn over a targa.. and that impacts prices too.

I fawn over Targas, and paid a lot more than $20K for mine.

I can understand not wanting/being able to change interior. You're right (according to the pics) the paint looks good, but have the dent work done. And get a quote or two for the interior work. Nobody will pay for the car looking like it does now unless it is to be a track car.

We don't have to tell you, the market has said, "Too much" (in its present condition).

[RichHawk]

All the honest feedback appreciated. I spent a good part of the weekend correcting all the mentioned items above. Posted a lot of pics, plus dropped the price to $17.5K

I talked to a paintless dent removal place, and they said the Porsche sheetmetal is too thick to get the dings out. If they did succeed at getting the spots popped out that it was likely that the paint would crack. So I'm leaving them . it's really only four little spots.

So now it's a very good condition Targa with brand new engine and shocks, needing nothing but recovering of the seats ($500-$1000) and the price is dropped.

Richard

[DCinVA]

Nice pics of the flat six!

GLWTS

[vracer]

Originally Posted by racer

I talked to a paintless dent removal place, and they said the Porsche sheetmetal is too thick to get the dings out. If they did succeed at getting the spots popped out that it was likely that the paint would crack. Richard

I had two removed from my car. However, they were very faint.

[hill]

Rich,
I like your car as it is for the money. The seats suck and the milage is high for what many people use as a weekend/sunnyday car, but I think you're right to think that the engine work and relatively recent suspension, along with a working tranny and a generally unquestionable provinence make your car worth your price.

Sheesh, shop the history of some of the nicest looking cars in ebay to find they've had import/re-import historys with details indeterminable, they've been in fourteen states with a chance to clean the title during each move, they've been leases, rentals, wrecks, floods, and any number of other things of question and yet they draw more money than your car because the color's attractive or the seats ain't old?

If your finances need the bucks in a hurry that's one thing, but the look of your door handles isn't worth a $2000. discount.

The one thing that I do think needs a little more 'splainin' is the car's use on racetracks. Track use ages even the best of 'em - sometimes in only a couple of minutes after a start.

I'd buy your car right now if I hadn't dropped $25K for a different one very recently, and I'm thinking to buy yours and sell that anyway if someone doesn't grab your car before I make up my fool mind.

[hill]

Originally Posted by racer

to many "first time" owners, it IS the little things. Someone buys this car and goes to impress their friend, the first thing they will notice are the "little things" you come in touch with. While to you the lock bezel and torn seats aren't important, to a potential buyer they are. I can't impress enough that good pics, and a good vacuum/wax/detail really helps present the car.

As for motor work.. imho, yes, having a well documented motor rebuild is a plus. BUT, I can't say it adds an over amount to the price. Sad part is, you can spend $15K on a motor rebuild on a car that was only worth $15K to begin with.

I also think the market treats Targas as a stepchild. Folks will fawn over a Coupe or a Cab.. not sure I've seen too many fawn over a targa.. and that impacts prices too.

I tend to agree with racer here - that many (too many) potential buyers are overly concerned with how their new 'pride and joy' will present to the friends/wives/girlfriends, and for those as long as the car runs it's good.

It's also true that you can never recover repair work expenses. To many buyers those are yours to carry during your ownership and they expect that your offered car will be in the good condition you present it for sale to be. They won't care that you broke your bank to get it to them in that good condition.

[drummin4fun]

Originally Posted by hill

I tend to agree with racer here - that many (too many) potential buyers are overly concerned with how their new 'pride and joy' will present to the friends/wives/girlfriends, and for those as long as the car runs it's good

Just $.02 here...

As a prospective buyer myself, I have been looking for a car in the best mechanical/aesthetic condition I can find for the money I plan to spend. In my search it has never failed to surprise me when someone lists a potentially nice car, and fails to do the most basic detailing which would make the car just that much more presentable, and, more to the point, suggest that the owner actually takes pride in their vehicle. I can read all day long about how someone has a 'beautiful freshly rebuilt motor and trans', but, (with due respect to the OP, as I am sure that sometimes there are mitigating circumstances), as stated by another here, if there are not even any pictures of what seems to be a major highlight of the vehicle, along with little attention paid to the looks or cleanliness of the car, very often I will pass. (And potentially miss out on a terrific car.)

That being said, I have also run across cars that look VERY nice externally, but where it appears that the mechanicals have been ignored.

...and then there are the posts that have one or two lines, no photos, no back story, no price, but expect to sell something.

Ok... sorry, I'm off on a tangent.

Bottom line, the search for that one 'right' car is long and painstaking. From a seller's point of view, being a buyer's market, it seems to me that one would want to post their vehicle in the best possible condition.

[RichHawk]

I took the 911 to one DE event because there is absolutely no legal way to really get to know a 911's handling abilities on the street. at least not on the square streets in Kansas.

So five 20 minute sessions of decently hard driving is the extent of the track duty the car has seen. I had lots of fun learning the 911's abilities, and practicing the "don't lift" corning methods. In that time I imitated Jeremy Clarkson power slides a few times, never even put one wheel off track, never got the the oil temperature much above middle of the gauge, and never had a moment of brake fade. All in all I'm pretty sure after each session the 911 was asking me "Is that it? Really? I thought you said you could drive?"

As always I aspire to be smooth and let fast come as a byproduct. But smooth and 911 is a different skill set than smooth in a spec Miata, so i'm pretty sure there were multiple seconds left on the table due to my inexperience in the car.

I then took a friends Boxster out, turned a lap just as fast as the 911, but it sure felt boringly easy in comparison.

Richard

[timchar]

The many mechanical positives outway the few interior cosmetic negatives... I think your price is in the reasonable ballpark.... It's interesting that some make a big deal about the mileage when you have a complete rebuild including suspension... I would buy a car with high mileage with rebuild, rather than a lower mileage that is soon to be due for a rebuild...I also drive my cars, they are not garage queens!

[RichHawk]

$17.5K and the right buyer.

She's sold and off to a new home in Nebraska.
Please welcome Ben H. the new owner of my Targa.