value of a '69 911e mfi in slate grey restored
 

what do you think about the value of a '69 911e 2.0mfi. this car will have a collector type restoration witch means every part of the car will be restored to it's real original condition without any compromises. The car is in slate grey color, and all matching numbers. The only modification will be the leather interior instead of the leatherette. Nothing special in the history of the car. But will look real beautiful and like new.

Coupe or Targa? If a Targa is a hard or soft window. Do you have the manuals and a good paper trail back to 1969?

Unfortunately you may find yourself underwater with a high $$$ restoration on this car.

It is a coupe. It has the Porsche Certificate of Origin. Every peace is proffessionally restored by real experienced restorators.

I'd venture a guess at $30-32K if all is done to a high standard. But it's difficult to know without a personal inspection. I've seen plenty of cars done by "real experienced restorators" that were extreme disappointments.

Yes, i've seen many "restored" cars, that look terrible. What i'm talking about is a real professional work with a "money not an option" restoration. Every part of the car is brand new now. No part left untouched. So i expect at least $60K.

Slate Grey '69 911E
 

Great color, what color is the interior? I'd think factory red or another interesting color would ad a few thousand.

I think 911E's are a bit undervalued, but $60k seems optimistic. If it was a low mile original, I think it would bring that kind of money.

I ran across a nice fairly original maroon/black '70 E last year that sold in the low $20k range in good driver condition.

Until the euro gains in value, the days of euro based countries paying top dollar (due to the low valuation of the dollar) is over.

You are going to disappointed then as this car, when done, won't sell for $60K or even close IMHO. You are spending all this effort on the wrong car (year and model).

You might spent 60 on it but it's only going to be worth at most 2/3 of that when it's done...

G450X: Unfortunately the interior was black originally. so i restore it to black. but i really like the slate gray exterior/red interior combo...

the 2.0mfi is a one year only model. only 1000 cars were made. you can find more S than E on the market. A really good restored (not just street level) restored car from this type costs more than 45K Eur in Germany and that market is my primary target, so i hope i will get that price for a rare car with rare color... i'm optimistic :-)

An over the top restored white 69E last year sat on the market; the owner finally took $89,000 for it. Unfortunately for him being he had over $100,000 into the restoration. Sloan had it offered at $12X,XXX. Here is the early S thread http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?67139-1969-911e

I also believe a very nice but original E sold for over $85,000 at auction.
http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?SaleCode=AZ11&CarID=r245&Currency=U SD


So yes, you can get all the money for an E but you better make sure you do not over restore to the point of being upside down.

Luckily there are a few really professioanl craftsman here in Hungary who can restore my car over the top on way much less money than in the US or even in Germany. I have a thred where i posted some pics what the craftsman fabricated from a piece of metal. We had very good painters and i can purchase every parts here or on ebay. I'm sure the car will be stunning and cheap compared to the $85,000 :)

If Europe is your market the game changes a bit. I sold my rough 1970 911T targa over there for less than $10k in 2008. It was fully and properly restored by Seeland Klassische over 2 years and was resold for what I was told by the new German owner was more than the 45K Euro you list above.

If it were me looking to buy, for 60k I'd want something that was restored at the Porsche factory, nothing else. With all due respect, Hungary doesn't exactly have a world-wide reputation for craftsmanship like, say, Italy, Germany or even the US.

Restoration for sale is pretty much always a losing proposition. Restoration only makes sense to enjoy, not to sell.

Restoration...
 

Restoration for sale is pretty much always a losing proposition. Restoration only makes sense to enjoy, not to sell.[/QUOTE]

I somewhat disagree with this statement, but it does demand a proper car pick to begin with, many carefully picked used parts, lots of free labor, etc...

If you have to pay somebody to do everything, then it's almost always a losing proposition. If it's a retired enthusiast's labor of love with minimal outsourced labor, it could be profitable.

I think "E's" are a bit undervalued and a good early 911 with the potential to appreciate. They are arguably better drivers than early "S's," and (according to period road tests) quicker at most normal road speeds.

Good Luck with the '69 "E" hun911, they are nice driving early 911's.

if you would know how much car from italian and german restorers come to Hungary for body work! we have very good craftsmen who work for way much less money than you could imagine in the US. And in absoulte high quality. My friend has a restoration shop (they do mainly porsches) and they have only clients from other countries like Grmany. They are booked for the next 2 year!

just a few pictures of my friends bodyshop

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324426824.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324426847.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324426874.jpg

But of course Hungary is a piece of sh.t. It's very frustrating to live here... :-(

That may very well be true, but my point is that the reputation of your craftsmen isn't known around the world. That will make it harder to sell. Maybe the best restorer in the entire world lives in Somalia, but no potential buyer would realize that and consider it a plus.

Non-euro based countries....
 

Due to the strength (even with recent instability/downward push) of the euro it makes great economic sense to source craftsmen from non-euro currency based countries in the same region to take advantage of the currency strength.

Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, etc., are countries that are relatively close to euro based countries. Unless you are uber rich (or extremely nationalistic) it's really wasteful to spend top dollar (i.e., Germany) when similar costs could be 50% less in a neighboring country.

The only wild card being any duty fees imposed for import/export. Maybe it would make sense to get a rough car to run & drive to another country and drive back a restored example - how do they track this type of mobile possession for tax purposes?

North America - not too many years ago the Canadian dollar was worth .50 to the USD, boy how the tables have turned - for the Canadians everything in the U.S. is half price!

That looks like a nice shop hun911 - I love to see old 911's brought back to life.

Have a Merry Christmas!

G450X

Yes, you're right. The terrible financial situation of Hungary can be an advantage if you work for foreign markets.

You d8n't have to pay any import/export duties if you don't sell the car to the destination country. You just pay for the shipping. No other cost.

Here is a beautiful example of the work of my craftsman. Had to replace the back seats but we couldn't buy one, so he fabricated one from a piece of metal.

Piece almost ready
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324500721.jpg

Piece already welded into place. And now comes the next one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324500904.jpg

so hun911, how much is it to get a body restauration in hungary? I have a 1971 911e project car and am not sure yet what to do with it....

From recent sales of driver quality E's for $40k:eek: i'd say an easy $50k and rising every day

craftmenship is on par or better in Hungary and Poland, to give you an idea a friend sends Steinway pianos to Poland from L.A to be finely restored and the total including the shipping both ways is still cheaper than work done in the States!
I doubt that because of this that it would affect value that it was rebuilt in Poland/Hungary,
bottom line: is the work satisfactory no matter where rebuilt ?
if done right who cares if it was performed in Somalia or on the moon!

Yup, I knew I should have bought that '70 E last year! It was a good driver that probably could have been picked up in the low $20k range. I think E's are quietly regarded as the best long hood drivers...

It's silly to make this a nationalist/ethnic thing. There are good shops and bad shops in every country I know of (as Rich implied).

But I've seen even "good" shops turn out marginal work. There was a car for sale at Rennsport this year that was priced in the mid-6 figures and I had "experts" standing within earshot praising it, but there were some real problems with the car that stood out like a sore thumb to me. I would have rejected the work, had it been my car.

My point is that one man's "professional restoration" is another man's hack job.

There's a thread over on Early S Registry about a car that was auctioned at Monterey as a "restored" '67S, but which had a whole host of details wrong/badly done. The car brought a ton of money, nevertheless. I don't know if the buyer planned to fix all the issues, or simply overlooked them. But he paid a "perfect restoration" price...

So you could potentially profit from a mid 5-figure restoration on a '69E. You just need the right buyer.

It's impossible to answer your question without inspecting your car. The body restoration of my car cost me around $6000 USD, but it's a total restoration of an almost junk basis (i purchased the car in the uS, because the owner found impossible or to costy to rebuild the car. But nothing is impossible :)). We need to replace almost every part of the car. Only the roof remain untouched. So based on the cars condition it can be much lower or maybe higher (but i can't imagine more work on a chassis than on mine).

The cost of the labor what is much cheaper in Hungary than in the US. For comparision. A worker in McDonalds earns around 3,5USD/hour for the same work as in the US. I think it's much-much lower than by you. You can calculate with this difference by bodywork too.

Here is a link to my other thred. Here i post some pictures of my car in progress. 100% handmade without any special hardware tools. (Sorry about my poor english)

Professional bodywork

Read this thread .

Ex-eastern bloc countries have some (or had...but i'm sure the craft has been passed along) of the best body metal workers in the world.

Needed to learn to repair...because replacement parts were not as available.


My personal experience is with/knowing Polish craftsmen.

Hi
 

I personally, do not even look for restored cars anymore, especially long hood Porsches.

If I can't buy rust free cars, I am gone.... I know rust free cars bring the most and stay there. These shops turning out all these restored cars is good, but when done they want $40,000 or more. I just can't pay the money for a restored car, very little margin to be happy with.

Restorer shops have to be happy there are buyers out there for these cars.

I say, body first, interior second, engine third. I think your better off in the long run to buy as original as possible, keep it that way, and move on.

Yes, there will be a time that you can't afford, these original cars, but gee, who wants a full restored car for big bucks, when you can still find some nice original cars?

The person who doesn't have the one-three years that he thinks it will take to find the "right" car, or who thinks the "right" car will still need a lot of work.

Yes, there will be a time that you can't afford, these original cars, but gee, who wants a full restored car for big bucks, when you can still find some nice original cars?[/QUOTE]

I think now it's the time you can't afford original unmolested cars. They are really rare and expensive. Yes, you can find unrestored ones, but they will need a lot of work to shine like new again. Most of them need full restoration. But of course if you "just" need a Porsche for fun, you don't need to have for example exact 4mm gaps between each body panel, don't need all the bolts replaced and galvanised, don't need fully restored gauges or reupholstered seats with german factory matchnig leather or leatherette etc.

Take a look around:eek:Unrestored E's are now selling for $40k so a restored one for that would be a bargain.

I must be missing something here. I still buy nice long hoods for under $40,000 these are E and T cars. Yes, things might be going up but Europe is in big doo doo now and a lot of buyers have dried up. I have a totally original T Targa for sale now, it's very, very rust free, one owner, original only once, original paint, and yes hard to find but out there. I want big bucks for the car. But Porsche did a car for PCA and they claim 80k was spent on a coupe T.....and now it's just a rust bucket with new parts...go figure.

Plus there are some good brokers you will find you a car. Gee on evil bay last month was a one owner, rust free 72 T that sold for 29k, I would buy that then have some restorer shop patch up a rusted tub.

There is a big difference between the price of an E and a T.

Yes
 

But my T is a survivor at $38,000.

A survivor E would be $58,000.

A restored T is how much?
A restored E is how much?

I would rather own the survivor, that's all I am saying. From what you guys are describing as a restored 1969 E, for that money, I would look for something else.

But that's what makes the world go round.....everyone is different, but I can tell you in the short and long of things original cars will always trump restored. Especially, some of these full blown resto jobs, gee they start out as a turd and its like putting lipstick on a pig.