Advice on 964 vs. 987c

[Justin@Athens]

So I have got my '07 Cayman paid off, I'd like to value it on the open market between 26k-29k.

I recently sold my 993, and was thinking about selling the Cayman too.

I was also thinking about buying a superb 964 but I think that I might be disappointed with the 964 after owning the Cayman and 993. In addition, the two cars are really around the same pricepoint with one being much newer and significantly lower mileage.

Should I keep the Cayman? I don't track my cars. I think if I can find a nice 964 for 20k I want to trade down. But that is only if I can sell the Cayman for 29-30k.

Tell me what you boys think. 987 is a tip, which is kind of a drag, really want to get back into a manual.

[seventythree]

The 987 is light years ahead of the 964 is every respect.

In comparison, the only thing the 964 has going for it is a dry-sump lubrication system, which is a non-issue if you don't track the car. In fact, it could be viewed as more of a nuisance for a street-only car.

[comintern]

964 was a "shoot yourself in the foot" moment for Porsche. Owning one is somewhere between "I need to sell it" and "I need heroin addiction money for maintenance". I'm sure others have differing opinions.

[dienstuhr]

Originally Posted by comintern

964 was a "shoot yourself in the foot" moment for Porsche. Owning one is somewhere between "I need to sell it" and "I need heroin addiction money for maintenance". I'm sure others have differing opinions.

Surely you mean the Carrera 4, and the early ones at that? I wasn't aware of significant "bonus" issues with the C2 that any other aircooled car doesn't have, but I stand to be corrected...

Cheers

w.

[comintern]

Originally Posted by dienstuhr

Surely you mean the Carrera 4, and the early ones at that? I wasn't aware of significant "bonus" issues with the C2 that any other aircooled car doesn't have, but I stand to be corrected...

Cheers

w.

Yes, thats what I meant in large part. Still these we completely new in major subsystems like brakes, ac, power steering and there are issues that previous models never had. More complex = more to break. I am actually looking for a 964t as a weekend club car. Too bad the widebody '94s were C4

[racer]

How are you going to use the car?

As a DD, the Cayman is so much better imho. From at least the standpoint of an effective HVAC system alone.

What kind of 964 are you looking for? Coupe? targa? cab? It seems you've owned many cabs (or open cars) based on your sig. Maybe a 987 Boxster instead of the Cayman?

[Justin@Athens]

I am definitely looking for a coupe, manual, weekend driver/concourse car. I do enjoy a convertible, but am not looking for another.

The only reason I am considering a 964 over another 993 is price. I want a really clean low mileage car, and I feel I have a much better shot picking up a 964 that meets those criteria.

My 987c only has 44k miles. I really hate the idea of trading it for something that is 20 years old but cost roughly the same money.

I understand the HVAC issue, it is a concern. However it can be upgraded.

I think it really comes down to missing a 911 in the garage--what can I say...



there is no substitute.

[fryardds]

If you really want to learn about the experience of 964 ownership I would suggest visiting the 964 Rennlist forum. Lots of good, real world, experience there about this model.

I will say that the comments here about the potential problems of the AWD 964 are blown very much out of proportion. Many owners there, including myself, report no problems whatsoever with this system. Living in GA though, there would be very little reason to have an AWD 911.

Hopefully you can find a nice local C2 to test drive to see for yourself if that model would be the 911 you would want to own.

[creaturecat]

A 987 is a disposable, dime a dozen car, compared to a 964.
The 964 is a 993 in disguise.

[racer]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

A 987 is a disposable, dime a dozen car, compared to a 964.
The 964 is a 993 in disguise.

Got a chuckle out of the "dime a dozen" comment.. because I recall folks saying that of 356's in the 1970s and Longhoods up till the late 1990s... now they are all priced to the sky.

Someday, even a 987 will no longer be a "dime a dozen"...

[CountD]

Originally Posted by comintern

964 was a "shoot yourself in the foot" moment for Porsche. Owning one is somewhere between "I need to sell it" and "I need heroin addiction money for maintenance". I'm sure others have differing opinions.

I have always been a big fan of the 964, but after talking to many people and owners, the old saying that boat owners use in conversation always seems to come up:

"One of the best days of my life is when I bought my 964, and the other best day of my life is when I sold my 964."

[Derkbarrington]

I own a 1981 SC, 90 964 C4 and 81 Lotus Turbo Esprit and must say I enjoy the 964 the most. I can use it as a daily driver with all the comforts I require, but it still provides me with some great performance when I require it.

The 964 now has over 264,000 miles on it and it still looks good inside and out. Never had a problem with the AWD drive system and this car has never let me dowm. The day I put it up for sale was not a happy day for me. Although a guy bought it he has yet to pick it up months later and if he doesn't pick it up soon I am tempted to keep it. I don't get the bad rep this model gets...sounds more like a urban myth to me

[Justin@Athens]

I never would have thought that I would get so much feedback from this thread! Thank you all. While I have never owned a 964, I have done quite a bit of reading and have been around here long enough to understand that as with anything that is more complicated...there is more to go wrong. With that being said I would not hesitate to buy a C4 over a C2 if the right car came along. I think at this juncture however, I am going to keep the Cayman and maybe buy a really ratty 964 that I can work on and get a feel for the variant before I trade the Cayman off for a concourse 964 or 993.

For any of you that have not driven a Cayman...I highly recommend it! Alot of drivers will tell you that it is more fun to drive than a 996 or 997. Not as powerful, but the car is more focused than today's 911--which I am starting to categorize as more of a grand touring car. There is alot of character in how a car is optioned too.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by racer

Got a chuckle out of the "dime a dozen" comment.. because I recall folks saying that of 356's in the 1970s and Longhoods up till the late 1990s... now they are all priced to the sky.

Disagree - big differences, one of which is that it took decades for prices to climb. The best indicator of future performance is past results, and the 986s are showing depreciation curves like all the other entry-level Porsche lines (912, 914, 924/944/968). Fall to a bottom level and stay there for all but the most exceptional examples (914-6, 944 Turbo S, 968CS). There's no rational reason to think the 987 won't follow suit for the mainstream models that make up the bulk of production.

[dienstuhr]

Originally Posted by epbrown

Disagree - big differences, one of which is that it took decades for prices to climb. The best indicator of future performance is past results, and the 986s are showing depreciation curves like all the other entry-level Porsche lines (912, 914, 924/944/968). Fall to a bottom level and stay there for all but the most exceptional examples (914-6, 944 Turbo S, 968CS). There's no rational reason to think the 987 won't follow suit for the mainstream models that make up the bulk of production.

^^^Agree - especially considering the numbers produced... more than 300,000 Boxsters/Caymans as of June 2011.

Cheers

d.

[creaturecat]

Originally Posted by racer

Got a chuckle out of the "dime a dozen" comment.. because I recall folks saying that of 356's in the 1970s and Longhoods up till the late 1990s... now they are all priced to the sky.

Someday, even a 987 will no longer be a "dime a dozen"...

better start collecting them..... lots of them for sale.
: )

[andybullen]

these are very different cars - so it depends on what you are looking for....

if you've every owned anything air-cooled, you will appreciate the 964 much more, as it has a great balance of raw, air-cooled power and feel, while still having enough of the comforts you'd like to drive it regularly. It is an icon, and the last of the hand-built.... not many of these built, even compared to a 993.

the 987 is nice, fast and new, and something you can drive everyday with no issues. yes, there are plenty of these on the road because production numbers on these cars are significantly higher.

2 different ownership experiences - drive several of each, and the decision will
be much easier.

[johnvan8]

Don't forget the Cayman may have the dreaded IMS bearing failure issue. I understand it is less common than on the early boxsters but still, you never know.

[CountD]

If you're in the market, I would buy a C4. The car is kind of a sleeper 'icon of the era' and it was the car that was the bees knees when I was in high school. I would love to own a C4, but everyone I see out here in SOCAL has been ridden hard and has myriad dash lights on to attest to this.

[917L]

"911: Living Legend, " from the November 2012 issue of Evo, might be revealing for some. Eight variations of the 911 (the 991 Carrera, the 997 Carrera, the 996 Carrera, the 993 Carrera, the 964 Carrera, the 3.2 Carrera, the 3.0 SC, and the 2.2T) are compared. The emphasis is not on "raw performance" but rather on " the all-important emotion and tactility that has defined 911s of every era, and [on] how that feel and connection may or may not have been eroded over the years."

The 964 Carrera, which received the maximum 5-star rating, was judged superior to the 993 Carrera, which received a 4-star rating. The values of 964s are rising (as are the values of late 80s 911s)--particularly because of the driving experience that they offer.