Value of 1961 356 "Notchback"

[aircool]

I recently went to look at this 1961 notchback. The history on the car is a little vague. the owner passed away and left it for her sister. The selling sister first told me her deceased sister had bought the car new in California. There are black plates with the car. The seller also said her sister had an old convertible she traded in for the 356. And maybe she didn't buy it new. At any rate the car is in very good condition with a lousy repaint showing "spider webbing" and over spray but a good 10 footer. She paid someone from the "American Classic Car Association"? to come out and give her an estimate on the car. Apparently he didn't notice the rust in the battery area up front (two holes) nor did he take into consideration the fact the car has not been run in 5 years. The floors and rockers were solid. Looks like some bondo down in front where the bumper brackets come out of the fenders. Inside trunk was nice but had a lot of undercoating so I couldn't see thru to the metal. I went with cash hoping to bring the car home, but when she said it was worth $80k, I had to back off. She said she given the economy she might sell for 40-50K. The "appraiser" told her not to sell it for less than that. She's been reading about the "notchbacks" and the fact they only made a few, hence the price. I explained the ABCs of the 356s, but she is stuck with what the "appraiser" told her. She did come down below 40K but absent any records and an engine that hasn't run for a while, who knows. The odometer shows 58K and she says its original. Interior was very clean, She thought it was all original. Unfortunately I drove an hour and a half to look at it and my daughter brought the wrong lens for her camera so I only got some cellphone shots.

Before I call her back for a counter offer I wanted to see if any one has any ideas on what these are worth now??

thanks,
aircool

[nota]

personally I think the notch is a minus
they just look wrong to me

but an old 356 of any type in good unrusted shape are very valuable
and 40k for a 50k mile car is about where the market is now

a car can be restored many times
it is only original ONCE

[G450X]

I think you have to ask yourself what are your intentions for the car - resale or keep it and enjoy it. I consider the notch a slight minus as well, odd that they made it at all. I'm usually not a "red" Porsche fan, but that deep red looks very good to me on a 356, a plus. If you love the notch and want a nice driver with your free labor, don't buy it as an investment, but a fun driver that should not depreciate.

For resale this car seems way overpriced to me, worth $80k?? It's a '61 1600 normal notchback with a lousy repaint, bondo in the nose, rust in the trunk, and it has not run in many years so the brakes are probably shot, the engine needs a reseal, etc., etc.

If it was an original car (good paint, no wrecks or bad rust) that needed some mechanical work, I'd offer $25k to $30k max. This car I'd say in order to make any money at all, you would need to pick it up for $20k max. A good paint job is not cheap these days, figure $5k minimum with little/no bodywork.

There are so many variables to consider, and the stagnant economy does not help in this price range. The uber rich will always drop a million on an unrestored rough Ferrari, but a '61 1600 normal notch - a harder market to find. If it was at $10k to $12k it would be a no brainer, but at $40k it's right at high market (considering it needs paint and mechanical work) seems to me - hard to make much money unless you want to hang onto it and hope it turns into a $80k car in a few years (possible I suppose, but not probable).

Good Luck with your decision, I wish I had bought a couple of 356 rusty hulks and threw them in a barn years ago when they were "worthless," I had no idea they'd be worth so much today....

[Seahawk]

Great points above.

If you like, PM your cell number and we can chat. I own a 62 Notch that I purchased two plus years ago for much, much less that was a rust free, running black plate Cali car.

Paul

[racer]

I thought all 356's were at least 35K these days.

As mentioned, what is your goal with the car? What is your own financial limit? if the numbers don't work, then move on. Trying to beat down a woman on price because she's at your price limit isn't her issue.. its yours. Heck, I am sure there are some "dealers" would buy it at asking, detail it, and ask twice what they paid.

I used to hate the notch.. now I think its really funky.

[G450X]

[QUOTE=racer;6470846]I thought all 356's were at least 35K these days.

From the sales prices I've seen, I think $35k to $40k is a reasonable price for a car with original paint (or a quality repaint), good interior, runs good, no real needs - not perfect, but a nice runner.

The "over restored" cars that somebody will pay top $$ (show cars) usually go for much higher (a normal $35k car might bring $75k+, and it's not a rare version/optioned).

This car probably does not run & needs a brake system overhaul, paint & some rust repair, and is a normal 1600 single grille. I like the dark red color, but only for a extra few thousand only if it's the original hue. If it was a Super, I'd throw more coin at it as well.

The only real plus I can see to a notchback is that they were the base for a convertible and a good shop could chop the top and put you in real 356 (not factory built mind you) convertible for relatively cheap (compared to most open 356's). That's a tricky resale proposition though, because many people would not touch it if the factory did not build it.

[blau911]

Ditto on G450X said.
IMHO the notches are an acquired taste. The only thing good about them that might make them more valuable is that the body is the same as the cab, and therefore, the top could be chopped and the car could be made into a cab. At the current cost of a good cab, that could be a bargain. Then again converting to a cab would not be a cheap prospect, and the car would no longer be original. $40k should buy you a good running driving, mostly rust and accident free driver quality 356 coupe. In this case, it would only be buying you a restoration prospect with no pleasure up front except the prospects of future driver and potentially nice restoration after many more hours and thousands are spent. Also, considering it has been sitting so long, the mechanics are a total wildcard. If the appraiser is telling the owner that the car is worth $80k, and she is willing to sell for $40-45k, then tell her to sell it to the appraiser for $40k - and he can fix it and flip it...
It's easy to talk. It's an entirely different thing to come up with $40k knowing that another $20-30k will be necessary to make a car nice.

[Seahawk]

I don't want to get into a discussion on the merits of the Notch beauty-wise...I bought mine because I don't like to own the same car twice and I've owned regular 356's in the past, all different (an A and a B).

The Notch is, to me, unusual and I like that. I can tell you that it gets an inordinate amount of attention, even in LA. Is what it is.

That said, there is a big difference between a 61 and 62 Notch...all you need to know is here: Porsche Karmann Hard Top Cars :: The Unofficial Notchback Registry

In addition, the value of a Notch that has been cut is dramatically different than a real cab...the 356 Registry has volumes of information on why. The price point only justifies the mod if the owner wants a relatively cheap cab that will remain cheap. If they can find the parts.

The car in question is maybe a 20k car, hard to tell without digging into it. I paid much less for mine 2 1/2 years ago and it was in getter shape.

The below are pictures of a friend of mine taking his Mom, who owned 356 in the fifties and earl;y sixties, for a ride over the holidays, in my car.

[vracer]

I got out of the 356 market in '10, so my knowledge is only 'fairly' current. What follows is only scratching the surface.
The notchback is the least desirable model.
This car has the least desirable engine.
'Black plates' are not original to '61s. They had yellow with a '61 sticker.
If you're still interested in the car, have her get a COA so you can check originality of the car. Then wait 4-5 months for her to realze that it isn't worth what she thinks.

[Macroni]

An Outlaw at Cavallino XXI

[piscean911/914]

hey aircool - i own a '62 356 notchback, outlaw now, for tours and for the track - the notch you are looking at looks like a $25k 356 to me, but you need to get an inspection by a knowledgeable 356 person to really know - the best notch i have seen sell was completely restored and brought $65k a few years ago - check the 356 registry - notchbacks are great 356's, although the market rates them rather low - i have found that the styling appeals to younger 356 guys (under 50), and the older guys just don't like them - maybe also because harry pellow also hated them! - i like to point out that if you want a great looking fast back porsche, then get an early 911! in any event, notchbacks are great 356's and they are also increasing in value, as their #'s dwindle, and as a new generation of 356 guys take a fresh look at the notchback - hope this helps - brad k in seattle

[garybeck]

Wow, what a deffence a year can make.
I would buy that notchback fast at that price.
The Karmann hardtop will jump in value.
I had one years ago and loved it, I wish I'd still had it.

[techweenie]

This is traditionally the least-loved body style of the 356 era. However, the money tide has raised all the boats. As described, I agree with Brad K. $25K, and don't even try to address the rust/paint problems. Just use it.

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I don't want to get into a discussion on the merits of the Notch beauty-wise...I bought mine because I don't like to own the same car twice and I've owned regular 356's in the past, all different (an A and a B).

The Notch is, to me, unusual and I like that. I can tell you that it gets an inordinate amount of attention, even in LA. Is what it is.

That said, there is a big difference between a 61 and 62 Notch...all you need to know is here: Porsche Karmann Hard Top Cars :: The Unofficial Notchback Registry

In addition, the value of a Notch that has been cut is dramatically different than a real cab...the 356 Registry has volumes of information on why. The price point only justifies the mod if the owner wants a relatively cheap cab that will remain cheap. If they can find the parts.

The car in question is maybe a 20k car, hard to tell without digging into it. I paid much less for mine 2 1/2 years ago and it was in getter shape.

The below are pictures of a friend of mine taking his Mom, who owned 356 in the fifties and earl;y sixties, for a ride over the holidays, in my car.

You gotta love the Sixties in SF - Two big men in a little car - Love is a powerful thing!


Edit...sorry for the "SF" comment...but it sure is a pretty sight none the less!

[aircool]

christiandk,

I think Seahawk mentioned that is a picture of his friend and the friend's mother, not "two big men"

At any rate, this car was still available as of last September. I called the seller and made another offer, but she said she had an offer for $30K. I can't remember if I kept her number or not to call her back. My guess is she has not sold it. She lives in a very small town. But with, what looks like, Porsche prices going crazy, it may still be there.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by G450X

For resale this car seems way overpriced to me, worth $80k?? It's a '61 1600 normal notchback with a lousy repaint, bondo in the nose, rust in the trunk, and it has not run in many years so the brakes are probably shot, the engine needs a reseal, etc., etc.

This is all that needs to be said.

[Southbay356]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

That said, there is a big difference between a 61 and 62 Notch...all you need to know is here: Porsche Karmann Hard Top Cars :: The Unofficial Notchback Registry
]

This link is dead , is that info on Notchbacks posted anywhere else ?