At what point is a 911 not worth it???

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

There are, you moron.
For under $20k, you need to find them locally.

For a "daily driver"...
Locally, $18-$22k.
Ebay/internet $22k-$24k

LOL, all with stories/problems/weird mods/unknown history.

For PushingMyLuck, anything that moves under its own power is "driver quality". The rest of us have a little higher standard. You calling *anyone* a moron is the height of irony.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

There are, you moron.
For under $20k, you need to find them locally.

For a "daily driver"...
Locally, $18-$22k.
Ebay/internet $22k-$24k

How do you know they're daily driver quality if they're selling faster than you can arrange a PPI?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/776446-getting-ppi-doesnt-seem-realistic-possible.html

[JordanPryce]

You guys are looking at this all wrong. For 25-40K you are getting a car every bit as good, and just as fun to drive as a $250K Ferrari Dino.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

How do you know they're daily driver quality if they're selling faster than you can arrange a PPI?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/776446-getting-ppi-doesnt-seem-realistic-possible.html

Exactly.

He contradicts himself at every point. His goalposts move with every passing thread.

Maybe in a year, he'll actually understand that the stuff folks have been telling him in this forum was pretty close to the truth.

In the meantime, hopefully he spends his $25k on a WRX and just goes away.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by JordanPryce

You guys are looking at this all wrong. For 25-40K you are getting a car every bit as good, and just as fun to drive as a $250K Ferrari Dino.

True. And almost as sexy.

[PushingMyLuck]

Yes, I remember that thread.
Posted right after seeing a 3.2 Targa for $18k with 80k miles.

That was when I first started looking.
I've since learned that a "daily driver quality" car that looks decent at $18k will sell the same day.
Under $20k means no PPI.

What I mean by "daily driver quality" is simply that it's not a show car.
Not a beater, not rusted, but an maintained, unrestored, but nice looking car.

[whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by JordanPryce

You guys are looking at this all wrong. For 25-40K you are getting a car every bit as good, and just as fun to drive as a $250K Ferrari Dino.

This makes sense. I have had a few early 911's two 3.2 911's in a row and before that a Ferrari 308 and a 360. Currently I have a S4 Audi and recently was considering an M3 but not after closer scrutiny. I also came very close to buying a Lotus Evora.

I can 100% say the early 2.4 and 3.2 911's have been more fun that all the other cars I have owned including the Ferraris. Given 30k 40k or 50k I cannot think of a better car to buy as a fun second car. The 3.2 cars beat the early ones in terms of usability IHMO.

So to re-cap for me personally I cannot think of a better car period as an overall usable fun classic car than an SC or 3.2 even if they cost 50k or more. I would also way rather a 3.2 than a 993 at any price point and would consider a 996/997/991 even if they drop to comparible cost.

[COLB]

If you are scared to buy an air cooled 911 because it may break, and be expensive to fix, then you are probably best served by getting a newer car with a warranty.

911s are hobby cars that happen to be appreciating. They aren't T-bills with guaranteed returns, or Hondas that you can drive 30k without even changing the oil.

Right now the impact bumper years are $25-30k cars -- depending on color, body style, and year. Those less than $25k need more work -- but not all of this is catastrophic. Cars selling over $30k cars have exceptional condition, special options/colors, or extremely low miles.

If you can't find a decent car for under $30k, you aren't really looking hard enough, or your standards are too exacting -- trying to find the exact colors and options you want in a low production car.

PML first came on here saying there were tons of "great" cars selling for $18k. That isn't true. There are a lot of rough cars selling for that, but very very few great ones.

But even a "rough" car can be a decent buy if you avoid major pitfalls, and are willing to put some sweat equity into fixing the small things, and catching up deferred maintenance. They are priced under $20k for a reason. But those reasons don't necessarily preclude you from having a lot of fun driving the car while you bring it up to par over time.

The key is understanding the condition factors that justify the difference in price, and getting a car that is a decent value at your price point, knowing you won't get a condition 1 car for condition 3 money.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

What I mean by "daily driver quality" is simply that it's not a show car.
Not a beater, not rusted, but an maintained, unrestored, but nice looking car.

What, like that $14.5k targa you were so snidely commenting on in the other thread?

LOL, dude, that standard you are setting up there is still too broad.

A good driver with a gutted interior is going to cost $5k to restore to stock. So a good driver with a stock interior can't be compared to a good driver with a gutted interior. And by gutted, I mean racing seats, replacement door cards, rear seat delete, etc. By comparing the two cars in pricing, you are being dishonest.

Unrestored could mean anything. Keep swinging, you'll make contact one of these times.

[COLB]

To key off Eric's point though, you can buy a cheaper car with a gutted interior that is mechanically sound, and have a blast -- driving the piss out of it while you buy the bits you need to get it right. They sell them every day in the marketplace.

It may be $16k well spent. If you are a newb like me, you can learn something, and have something to show for it at the end of the ride.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

If you can't find a decent car for under $30k, you aren't really looking hard enough, or your standards are too exacting -- trying to find the exact colors and options you want in a low production car.

PML first came on here saying there were tons of "great" cars selling for $18k. That isn't true. There are a lot of rough cars selling for that, but very very few great ones.

The key is understanding the condition factors that justify the difference in price, and getting a car that is a decent value at your price point, knowing you won't get a condition 1 car for condition 3 money.

100% truth. There have been some REALLY nice 3.2 cars for sale this past year for under $30k. Really good cars. A couple of those cars have been under $25k. None of them have been under $20k. The cars under $20k all seem to have one issue or another. Some pretty serious-looking, and others not so bad, except that there are multiple issues. Throwing down a bunch of asking prices then crossing your arms and saying "See, I told you so" is just plain ol' stupid. Comparing condition, color mileage and year along with some intangible stuff that is hard to quantify - that makes a difference as to what determines whether the car is a bargain, a fair deal or a rip-off. Throw into that the buyer's abilities with a wrench, and you get a whole other level of value judgements.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

To key off Eric's point though, you can buy a cheaper car with a gutted interior that is mechanically sound, and have a blast -- driving the piss out of it while you buy the bits you need to get it right. They sell them every day in the marketplace.

It may be $16k well spent. If you are a newb like me, you can learn something, and have something to show for it at the end of the ride.

Absolutely true. That car might be a great bargain for someone looking to get into the car and drive. But it can't be compared in price to a car that has a complete OEM interior with similar miles, history and color. The car with a gutted interior that is a great driver has a lower price for a very good reason. And if you want to compare that car to other cars with gutted interiors, I think that's fair game.

[PushingMyLuck]

What straw car posted in this forum with a gutter interior selling for $16k ?
Of the dozen+ $20k cars I've posted, all had intact interiors.
A car with a gutted interior will sell for $12k at best.

[6300 RPMs]

The flipper that is asking 20.8k for the 86 coupe bought it 9 months ago for 12.7k on fleabay.

[mattC2993]

I've conversed with a couple of local guys who seem to be getting dejected about the cost of a project 911 (pre '74). They may be priced out of the market. I have said for the last few years that $30k is the ceiling for lots of guys. A $20k project car is going to blow that budget out of the water.

[manbridge 74]

@mattC2993,

The key for your local friends is DIY and sweat equity like colb mentioned. If one has patience and some time to forgo other hobbies you can make room for a long hood. Yes, I said long hood. Many of these were converted to track use or forward dated making them harder to sell today. But it's all reversible spread over time and these make good drivers as they'll never be car show queens anyhow.

And a 20K project car might be someone else's 30K project car in 10 years for someone wanting to do a total strip down resto but there is nothing available.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

$20,800
1986 Porsche 911 Carrera, $20,800 - Cars.com

I guess you don't read your own links.

This car isn't listed with the original door cards or seats. Over $20k, yet missing OEM bits. To put the car right, you have to spend another $3k, minimum. It's not really a bargain any more.

There is a reason that some of these cars are less expensive. An incomplete car has a smaller market, and thus commands a lower price. But the costs to put the car back to something like OEM has to be carefully considered. Otherwise, you don't have a basis for comparison, and might spend too much on a car that has a smaller retail market, if it ever was necessary to sell it.

The much larger aircooled 911 market wants originality, not something that merely moves under its own power. Heck, you can still pick up mid-years in the low teens if you keep your eyes open. I'm sure they'd drive OK.

[mattC2993]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

@mattC2993,

The key for your local friends is DIY and sweat equity like colb mentioned. If one has patience and some time to forgo other hobbies you can make room for a long hood. ...

I don't think so. They are already counting on doing all the work themselves. A $20k restoration is unlikely with everything but paint DIY.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by mattC2993

I don't think so. They are already counting on doing all the work themselves. A $20k restoration is unlikely with everything but paint DIY.

Well, you could start here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/793970-1969-911-sale.html

If the rust is under control, I don't see why you couldn't get close to a $30k budget. OK, paint is still going to be an issue, but the car would be a great driver until the money go saved up for glass-out repaint.

[mattC2993]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Well, you could start here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/793970-1969-911-sale.html

If the rust is under control, I don't see why you couldn't get close to a $30k budget. OK, paint is still going to be an issue, but the car would be a great driver until the money go saved up for glass-out repaint.

Pretty good deal if its not a horror story and doesn't need everything. A car has to have something going for it like a decent body, interior or engine.