At what point is a 911 not worth it???

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by mattC2993

Pretty good deal if its not a horror story and doesn't need everything. A car has to have something going for it like a decent body, interior or engine.

"Unrusted longhood" would be what this car *might* have going for it.

All of a sudden, the car is worth something. This assumes two things, really:

1.) Not rusted.

2.) Matching numbers chassis, motor, trans.

[WANNA930]

Some of you guys really don't like each other.

[mattC2993]

Originally Posted by WANNA930

Some of you guys really don't like each other.

Its easier to like somebody who agrees with me.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by WANNA930

Some of you guys really don't like each other.

Eric is a little feisty, but PushingMyAgenda is just obnoxious.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Eric is a little feisty[...]

That is the nicest way to call someone an a-hole that I have ever seen. My hat is off to you, sir!

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

That is the nicest way to call someone an a-hole that I have ever seen. My hat is off to you, sir!

He's just PushingYourButtons.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

He's just PushingYourButtons.

Another good one. LOL, I like you guys.

[comintern]

Between purchase price and getting everything right, these are all $50k cars now, shockingly including the mid years.

Com

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by comintern

Between purchase price and getting everything right, these are all $50k cars now, shockingly including the mid years.

Com

I'm not sure I would put the price that high, but the days of every 911 being a $20K car by the time you got everything fixed is over. Which is a bit sad as the days of 911's just being fun cars to own, and buy somewhat cheaply, is coming to an end. I suspect that in just another 5-10 years you won't see many of them being used as daily drivers solely due to the fact of the initial buy in price.

[Jrboulder]

It seems to me that half of this issue is just inflation. From what I've read, used decent driver 911s have almost always sold for about the price of a couple year old Honda accord. In case you haven't checked, a 2012 Honda accord will run you 18-25k.

[COLB]

I might buy they are all $30k cars.

Maybe even $35k...but not $50k.

Inflation has been extremely low during the recent run up in 911 values, so I don't think that explains it.

no reason to over think it -- popularity drives demand. Demand increases faster than supply, and prices rise accordingly.

There is some truth to the fact that demand is also being pumped up by improving economic conditions for the demographic that buys old sports cars. A doubling of the stock market since 2008 contributes to a wealth effect.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

It seems to me that half of this issue is just inflation. From what I've read, used decent driver 911s have almost always sold for about the price of a couple year old Honda accord. In case you haven't checked, a 2012 Honda accord will run you 18-25k.

Correct, the cost of a new 911 has gone from $80k to $100k in just a couple of years. This will affect the price of substitute goods like a used 911. The stock market doubling is also a big driver of demand growth.

If prices stay high, it will bring out the sellers and prices will start to cycle down. A market correction would also remove some demand, and increase supplt

[comintern]

Originally Posted by COLB

I might buy they are all $30k cars.

Inflation has been extremely low during the recent run up in 911 values, so I don't think that explains it.

no reason to over think it -- popularity drives demand. Demand increases faster than supply, and prices rise accordingly.

Look, inflation is the increase of a price of good or service over time. Old 911's increasing in cost over time is inflation. You can deflect some of that as increased demand and I would agree to a point. But that demand is fueled by having more disposable dollars available. Which is a function of devalued dollars per the "borrowing" or flat out printing of money by the fed. Not so much a function of more wealth IMO. Not just our fed, by the way.

The federal inflation numbers include housing costs to a large degree, which have been rightly subject to a bubble popping deflation lately. Take that out of the context and you have consistent 6% inflation since we discovered you can pay for the Vietnam war and increase the democratic party voting rolls at the same time!

[COLB]

Originally Posted by comintern

Look, inflation is the increase of a price of good or service over time. Old 911's increasing in cost over time is inflation. You can deflect some of that as increased demand and I would agree to a point. But that demand is fueled by having more disposable dollars available. Which is a function of devalued dollars per the "borrowing" or flat out printing of money by the fed. Not so much a function of more wealth IMO. Not just our fed, by the way.

The federal inflation numbers include housing costs to a large degree, which have been rightly subject to a bubble popping deflation lately. Take that out of the context and you have consistent 6% inflation since we discovered you can pay for the Vietnam war and increase the democratic party voting rolls at the same time!

Inflation is a broader measure than just Porsche prices. Rising prices for specific goods are appreciation -- which is the market assessing a higher value on a given good or service -- which is a direct result of supply and demand. This differs from broad measures of inflation which equate to reduced purchasing power for currency.

Yes, there is always some inflation, and Fed policies are increasing the money supply, but this has not yet translated into any major change in the value of the dollar.

If it were, then this inflationary pressure would be lifting the prices of all cars equally -- and that is not what is happening here. Some models are rising, some are static. Which means we are looking at narrower market dynamics at work.

The housing bubble deflated in 2008-2009. Over the past 24 months, housing prices have actually been ticking upward in many markets, including a lot of the places that were hit hardest by the subprime crisis. Analysts are already suggesting the bubble is re-inflating. In the DC area prices are already approaching their 2006-2007 peak.

[gogriz91]

Originally Posted by COLB

The housing bubble deflated in 2008-2009. Over the past 24 months, housing prices have actually been ticking upward in many markets, including a lot of the places that were hit hardest by the subprime crisis. Analysts are already suggesting the bubble is re-inflating. In the DC area prices are already approaching their 2006-2007 peak.

I hate to say it but I hope the prices in 911s are artificially inflated too due to the 50th anniversary. I endeavor to not go into debt to pay for a weekend driver which is why I don't own a 911. I hope to pick up an early coupe one day but will have to either work a lot harder or smarter for what they're going for now or pray a huge 911 bubble will burst in the next 2-3 years.

[comintern]

Prices are going up, no doubt. My biggest surprise was the runup in mid year prices. That came completely out of left field. Makes one suspect that the demand is not coming just from the community, but has much more broad support. That bodes good for our hobby/vocation.

Com

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by comintern

Prices are going up, no doubt. My biggest surprise was the runup in mid year prices. That came completely out of left field. Makes one suspect that the demand is not coming just from the community, but has much more broad support. That bodes good for our hobby/vocation.

Com

Part of the deal is that supplies of the older cars are tightening. Why? Because Europe.

All those Europeans buying cars and shipping them to Europe means there are fewer total cars in the U.S. to play with. Even those who go out and search barns and fields for restorable cars have felt the effect of the tightening supply - those rusty crap cars in the barnyard now actually sell for real money.

[comintern]

Originally Posted by WANNA930

Ok, I see ads pushing the pricing limits on every sale. There really seams to be no limit.
I love 911's but at hat dollar amount is a 911 not worth it to you?
Just a thought?

Anjin-san, there are reasonable prices, uninformed prices and the actual trajectory.
Look at Holt's website, find a car you like, call for the price and reset your expectation. Or call Sloan and catch your breath. Or spend 4 hours a day for 12 months poring over ads until you find something to your liking that you can jump on without taking the time to do a PPI.

Com

[COLB]

Originally Posted by comintern

Anjin-san, there are reasonable prices, uninformed prices and the actual trajectory.
Look at Holt's website, find a car you like, call for the price and reset your expectation. Or call Sloan and catch your breath. Or spend 4 hours a day for 12 months poring over ads until you find something to your liking that you can jump on without taking the time to do a PPI.

Com

I think there is definitely a lot of "reaching" in pricing strategies.

Dealers smell blood in the water, and are asking for all the money -- whether they are getting it or not is a different question.

Lots of new entrants to the market have taken the taint off the mid years, which have been undervalued based off their reputations for rust & engine issues. As the experts say, pretty much all of the mid-year engines have been rebuilt or replaced at this point.

And the clean, narrow look with chrome accents is definitely "in" -- reflecting more closely the look of the long hoods than SCs. Once rebuilt to a high standard, with upgrades, the difference between the generations narrows.

Personally, I think the middies are better looking cars than the later impact bumper cars.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

Personally, I think the middies are better looking cars than the later impact bumper cars.

Oh, damn. Now you've done it.