Hey Guys, I think the way to look at this is The individual justifies the value to himself. I think we are not looking at that you a purchasing an experience. If you go into this with the sole intention of the cost and what it will sell for down the road you wont enjoy the car for its purpose and that's to Drive & Enjoy it..

Even though I love my old school 911(and I installed a factory stock 3.3L 930 engine in it), if I were to do it ALL over today...


I would get a BASE Boxster with NO options for about $55K out the door. One would be hard pressed after driving this new iteration NOT to buy it.
250HP, 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds and a top speed of around 165MPH, and 21st Century goodies(like Traction Control), etc.

Even a low miles car(which will be VERY expensive) still will need to be maintained to that year, and no early 911 is "cheap" to own.

The Boxster may not be a 911, but it is surely 100% Porsche, and a fantastic deal, considering the prices since it's introduction was like 40K...and its FAR better than the original, and much safer/reliable/flexible than any 70s/80's/early 90's 911.


Remember...unless you own a Gullwing, 959, etc...cars will always be a negative-return investment. Making an emotional attachment as to the value of ownership is like buying Apple stock at $700/share because one likes I-Phones. That same stock today is around $500, so someone took a hit. Make sure its not you when it comes to buying your future Porsche.

Any water cooled Porsche 911/Boxster since '99 is a losing bet because of steep depreciation. Personally I don't like a hobby car that will be worth 1/2 of new in 4 or 5 years. The classics will hold their value if not appreciate some. All will require ownership costs such as maintenance and insurance (which is cheaper for classics).

This is why I got away from new cars. I had a Boss Laguna Seca and every day I didn't drive it, I wondered why I was owning a slab of depreciating steel.

In general principle you are right -- that is one of the reasons I sold my 2005 -- it was about to come out of warranty, and I wasn't driving it enough to justify the depreciation.

That being said, 986 cars (through 2004) are at or near their depreciation trough, and prices are stabilizing. 987s are still falling.

Obviously, tatty cars that are poorly maintained, or that accumulate lots of miles can always continue to lose value, but I think a relatively low miles (50-80k, depending on year) 986 with sound maintenance -- particularly one that has the IMS and clutch replaced -- is going to retain its value in the band of $10-17k ($1-2k less for tiptronics).

Major variables are S vs. Base model, mileage, and the generation.

The 1997-1999 (2.5) cars take a value hit for their lower power, and trade in the $8-12k range in good nick. There is no S model, so they rarely hit the high end.

The 2000-2002 (2.7-3.2) cars are the middle ground and fall within the listed band.

The 2003-2004 (2.7-3.2) cars trade at the top of the range, as they have slightly more power, glass rear windows, and other small upgrades that bump their value slightly, with a premium for the commemorative cars.

In other words, you could pick up a solid 2003 S-model 986 with 50k for $15k, drive it 5k a year for three years, and probably sell it for near what you paid (if the IMS and clutch have been replaced.)

Putting 30-50k on a 986 is going to have a major negative effect on its value, but that is not depreciation.

Long time lurker first time poster...SmileWavy

I've been looking to get into a 964 for some time now and am fairly close to pulling the trigger on a 94 cab a friend a friend has. It's pretty well sorted, has 88k miles, clean inside and out, has had clutch and top replaced in the last 10k and brakes, tires, and steering rack within the last 2k. I have not had a PPI done yet but I suspect it's got original suspension and I know it is at least due for a 15k service and valve adjust ($1,200 where I live). I don't know how much oil it consumes but I don't think it is much. He wants $30k for the car. I am 45 and grew up with pictures of the 80s Carreras on my bedroom wall so this is the shape I am in love with. This will be my first Porsche.

When I look at my "in" price of $30k (that is before negotiating the $1200 sevice and anything that may come up in a PPI) plus things I would want to do to get it fully sorted upon taking ownership such as the D-ZUG HID kit, a Bluetooth head unit, and any rubber bits/hoses etc that need replacing plus the eventual cost of replacing suspension (Bilstein PSS10 or KW V3 plus fresh mounts and bushings) for another $5-10k, suddenly I have $40k in the car which could buy me a nice low miles 997.1. with IMS bearing done. And that doesn't even account for the fact that the car is approaching 100k and could need some top end work before too long.

Granted the 997 doesn't "do it" for me nearly as much as the classic 964 shape and air-cooled sound, but as the OP asked, at what point does an older 911 no longer make sense? How much is emotion and passion for a certain era of car worth? I did see a nice silver 997.1 on the way to work this morning and I must admit, it looked pretty good approaching in my rear view mirror.

I figure the depreciation cycle of the 997 has not flattened yet, but given the price support in the market from the older 964 and 993 cars, are they ever really going to be worth less than a driver-quality 964?

I would expect sorted 997s to bottom out in the low twenties -- primarily because they will have so many 996 and Boxster-series cars below them providing price support.

I'm not sure how the 964 and 993 market affects late model 911 prices. There is sure to be some ownership overlap, but there is a pretty bright line between modern sports cars and classic sports cars, and air cooled cars are pretty firmly in the classic car camp -- even the 993, which was an anachronism when it was first released.

What do you guys think of this targa?
Good: seems to be well cared for
Bad: almost 100K no out of car engine maintenance

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/795282-fs-87-911-targa-g50-granite-green-highly-documented-spectacular-condition.html

Grossly overpriced, no top end or tranny work mentioned. But a nice color nevertheless.

What would be a good price in your opinion?

I'm prejudiced, but I think the Targa is the perfect compromise if you only get one toy car. With the good care the car is reputed to have had, and a bit of luck, it's good for another 50-100K. If it were mine, I wouldn't sell for less than $32-33K. However, unless it is a consignment car, the owner has already done that.

It is certainly a beautiful looking car, but the used car salesman speak is nauseating.

The seller uses the whole ad to tell you how nice it is without giving a damn bit of information that can't be derived from the pictures. Is he hiding something, or just being a dealer?

How many miles? Doesn't really say…but implies around 90k. But "looks like 30k."

Any comments about the state of the engine, transmission, suspension, or other bits? Not really. "runs great". don't they all. No shots of the underside. How much oil does it leak/burn? etc.

Say it has maintenance stamps. Nice to have. But what the dealer did 25 years ago is not really relevant.

Etc.

Frankly, you can't judge anything about the car other than the paint looks great form 10 feet, and it seems clean cosmetically.

Someone with more experience can correct me, but the stance seems a bit off -- low in the front, and high in the back. I'd take a look at the suspension.

The price is not crazy for a rare color in great cosmetic shape, but it is top of the market for a 90k+ car with no evidence of a top end rebuild.

dealer website ad is similar but has more pictures. Engine hardware looks new: http://www.pedigreemotorcars.com/view/P228/Green-1987-Porsche-911-in-Delray%20Beach-FL

Carfax link is there, but showing "unavailable". Vin search is a blank.

Personally without more info I can't speculate, but for that price I would want a complete mechanical history available. Look beyond the immediate cosmetics.

I have no connection to this seller, but here is a car that checks all the boxes for me, and if you can put in some work on the cosmetics just reading through whats been done, and the overall attention to mechanical's over cosmetics this is a car I would be very very seriously considering
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/795422-1981-porsche-911-sc.html

Anyone with a screwdriver and socket set, can replace a door panel, rear deck lid, and front fogs if you are so inclined. You can find map pockets on parts F/S. You could get the car detailed and see the extent of the chips on the front bumper and lower valance if you are so inclined. All very simple fixes.

If I was in the market Id probably be on a plane right now.

Everything this guy Ken / Boca Porsche is offering is very overpriced. Skimpy in details and trying hard to hustle "we are getting tons of phone calls on this car ..." Yeah Ken but no one pulled the trigger yet did they. Probably because when you push for details that you should expect at that price they aren't there

Personally I'd be very wary. That other turd the CE cab has been around for a while, even though he created a new posting for it.

The mechanical work is nice, and it is refreshing to see an ad with actual detail. The sports seats are a plus.

But I think he is asking strong money for the amount of cosmetic work required. Car is not guards red -- another plus. Maybe venus red? Or paint to sample. But you are not going to easily find a similar color lid to bolt on. It really needs a full repaint.

Maybe it is just the angle, but the rockers look mashed by the rear wheel wells -- especially on the driver side. Improper jacking?

Also, that key pad by the ignition hints at dubious wiring, and a chopped dash -- but the ad says a new wiring harness. Seems like he would have pulled the aftermarket alarm when he fixed the electrical system.

I expect you could get in around the low $20s and then have fun driving it while you DIY the interior, and save for paint when you get around to it.

Honestly I think you have no clue on the values of these cars and the values your throw out are just not achievable these days. A car in that color if as advertized is worth 30k all day long and its already sold by the looks of it. Not sure why it has to have engine and tranny work. Most of these cars that are looked after do not have to be taken apart.

As for that cab what is wrong with it? I have zero affliliation with the dealer but would be interested to hear what is specifically wrong with it? If you can find a similar cab in that colour for less show us all.

"Also, that key pad by the ignition hints at dubious wiring, and a chopped dash -- but the ad says a new wiring harness. Seems like he would have pulled the aftermarket alarm when he fixed the electrical system.

I expect you could get in around the low $20s and then have fun driving it while you DIY the interior, and save for paint when you get around to it."

The keypad is stock US Dealer eighties Porsche. No question.
As for what I would offer and what the seller expects. I wouldn't start at twenty five k. I would start at below what the car is worth and get to the number I would be willing to pay. That part's up to the buyer.

Find me another SC in fairly an uncommon color, I think brick red or sunburst which is clearly enthusiast owned with true milage statement and such quality upgrades.

What do you know about that car that tells you its worth 30k all day long ?

"Most of these cars that are looked after do not have to be taken apart" Really How naive are you. You should understand that just because a dealer asks a high price doesn't mean the car is worth that number. Honeestly Its is you that has "no clue on the (real) values of these cars"

You are saying the keypad was dealer installed? I still think it is dubious -- it looks terrible, and who knows who wired it. But I have a similar issue on mine -- the aftermarket alarm is a bit of a wire mongosso below the passenger floorboard. Since everything works perfectly -- and it isn't visible (unlike that keyboard!), I am not messing with it for now. But it is on the list, and I would have certainly removed it had I been replacing parts of the wiring harness anyway.

Personally, good insurance is the best remedy for theft. Alarms are pretty useless except for waking the neighbors.

Fair enough. technweenie pointed out a similar car in blue in Mass for about the same money. The cosmetics were better, though.

Although I think it could be said better I agree 100%

The 3.2 Valve guides are an issue and there is no mention of that work being done. If you are eager to part with your money to a dealer and you want to pay thirty thousand plus for a cab or Targa, that you might have to spend another $5 to 10k on that's your right.