Oh absolutely. The new Evos are heavy pigs but the ability for the yaw control to rotate the car is amazing. You can drive them like momentum cars, apexing early, and essentially four wheel slide to track-out without ever feeling like you're at the edge of the car's limits.

Yeah, I think that 'any' would only apply to a bone stock 930. Take one of Dawe's or Pat William's or Chris Carroll's tuned 930s and game on...

Objectively, I agree with you. But I still think there is a stigma on the 308.

For many, it remains the poster child of the Tom Selleck, porn stache, hairy chest image of the 80s. It is less about the actual design or appearance of the car as it is the image -- fair or not.

It is the same reason the 911 market is a little down on whale tails on guards red cars -- even though that was the iconic look of the 80s. Nothing personal, but it is what it is.

I would guess that non-red Ferraris trade at a premium over red ones for the same reasons (in addition to rarity).

I'll trust your experience on the maintenance aspects of the different cars. I would expect the size of the 911 community gives it a little advantage over the Ferrari community -- there are a lot more DIY-ers out there, as evidence by this site, and the economies of scale help with aftermarket parts prices. Part of that is production volume, which gives the Ferrari an edge in long-term appreciation.

I wonder if those factors will benefit 308 values over the long term. The whole timing belt issue -- which seems to be needed every 3 years or 1500 miles, whichever comes first -- is a big stigma.

I know it isn't really 3 years or 1500 miles -- but it certainly seems like many of the cars for sale don't seem to get driven more than that in 3 years -- and bounce around in ownership because nobody wants to be the guy to suck up the cost when the service is due.

As for the "driving slow cars fast" comments, not everyone has the time or money to race/track their cars. You can have a performance beast, but if you do all your driving on public roads -- like I do -- the opportunities to plumb its potential are pretty limited. Driving a track-optimized car on the street gives you a lumpy, finicky, tooth jarring ride in a car that wants to eat your driver's license. Without the upside of being able to wring it out on a closed circuit.

I'd love to put in some track time at some point, but it is not in the cards in the near term. I recognize that disqualifies me as a "Porsche enthusiast" in some circles. I guess that is part of the changing direction of the "community" that is bemoaned by some posters.

One thing I want to mention about this is that for many, myself included, having a car with tremendous power is not about the need or desire to haul ass on public roads and/or a racetrack, but rather, it just feels really good (fragile ego, maybe? :p), to even just simply putter around in a vehicle that you know is a ground pounder. And of course, if one is a mechanic (either professional or amature), big power is often appealing in and of itself.

Also, I don't want to give the impression that I think the low-power 911s are not worthwhile or of no value simply because they have weak engines.

Actually its five years or 12,000 miles. Unless you include new water pump , hoses,belts,etc. The timing belt itself isn't that bad- a couple thousand. Much less if you DIY. They really are neat cars and I believe the market will eventually recognize that more than the slow crawl up in value.
A performance beast is tiresome as a DD, but sure is fun for week end activities-whether they be showing off at C&C, running a canyon or the club track session. :)
I hear you-when I fire up some stupid old Dodge with a 700HP Hemi, I just feel better-same with my way over powered 911.

I generally dont like Italian cars, but the Integrale is very nice looking. So 80s rally cool - but a piece of poop quality wise.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1396550306.jpg

I have to jump in here for a moment on that one... The bone stock 930 was capable with the right driver to hit 0-60 and the 1/4 in 4.7 and 13.1 respectively. Look up the same times for the new z/28 (real test not GM's claims) and pro to pro in a straight line it may be interesting. driver has a lot to do with it. Hell I remember handing a 2004 Z06 his ass in my bone stock 930 to 130 MPH. Now mine is over 400 WHP with a few bolt ons and 1.2 bar boost. Ran an 11 this past year at Mason Dixon raceway.

1. You don't state what year "bone stock 930".

2. You don't state the driver that actually achieved your claimed numbers.

I'm not saying that you are full of it. I am saying that if you are going to jump in and start making claims, back them up with F A C T S... SmileWavy

Matt it is an 87 that I was running a boost controller and advanced over stock timing setting but stock none-the-less. Want proof buy a 930 any one of them from 78 on and play with your settings and add a BC. That's essentially what Porsche did when they started racing these beasts. From there do your own research on these mighty turbos as they were called and you will see that the 930 turbo was Porsches' savior, and without there existence and production, the company would look very, very different today not to mention the words "racing" and "Porsche" would not be so Famously connected.

Horsepower is the easiest thing in the world to add on most turbocharged cars, as long as their bottom ends can handle it. I never doubt 930 power/performance claims since I've driven some that will almost snap your head off your neck. And that was back in the '80s.

Funny that someone mentioned an Evo, I own one. Sort of fell into my hands, (I have a thread on it over on OT), it's an Evo 9 MR and I was driving it today. It was previously modded to about 450 hp and lightened-up quite a bit, now it's back to (mostly) stock. It's fun...boost is addictive and it squirts forward on the freeway like it has a rocket booster under it. :)

One of my best friends has that car over in Europe. Lots of fun to drive in the Alps.

You clearly have no clue who I am even though I don't play the usual Internet game of anonymously hiding behind some made up screename.

You are telling me to do research and find out for myself as if I'm some 16 year old newbie. I drove a 930 for the first time in 1988.

I just asked you to verify your claims and you beat your chest like a monkey. Guys like Eddie Bello and Jeff Zwart have timing and scoring to back up their claims. All you need, if you were the driver, is a time slip or a video. Or even to simply say you were street racing and your bro-dude timed it on his watch. ;)

Ps. That 2.5rs Impreza in my signature is 225 measily hp of all motor. Local 400whp STis and EVOs aren't really fond of my car. They get a little annoyed after a lap or two of me in their mirrors and having no choice but to let me through even though they can pull 2-3 lengths on me on the straights.

But then when Michael Petiford drives your car and his only remarks when he gets out are, "you've got this nicely set up" you kind of take it as a pat on the back.

His claims aren't the least bit outrageous or unbelievable, why even challenge him and get all upset? A stock USA 1987 911 turbo did better than 13.1 in the 1/4 mile in Porsche's official literature, and they famously did not do hard launches for those tests. The car magazines always beat their numbers.

Two other thing: I for one am not "hiding behind some screen name", I just don't believe in sacrificing any more internet privacy than absolutely necessary. And there isn't much of it, that's for sure. How much personal info you want to share with the thousands of lurkers and other anonymous posters here is up to you, but don't judge other's decisions in this regard. I've been here since 2000 and have either met or know many other board members, definitely not hiding from anyone. If I've ever had a beef with someone here, I offer to meet in person. It's funny how they never accept. :)

Secondly, I don't see sig lines on this device...what cars are you driving?

I'm not the one who got worked up. Clearly my questions touched a nerve. In fact I went so far as to say I wasn't doubting him but still wanted some more back up information.

You and I both know that a 3.0 turbo is going to perform differently than a 3.3. And for the record a car with higher boost and changes to timing is not stock. They were legitimate questions based on his unclear premise in his statement.

As for the follow up? I'm kind of like chinese handcuffs, I will respond in equal kind to the response, which in his case was patronizing and a bit over the top. I never meant to make the guy butthurt, I just wanted to know more.

Also no reason to get up in arms about the anonymous thing. I was just pointing out that I'm easy to identify and that who I am is not hidden. Reading a lot into that fairly simple statement. I don't care if you don't reveal yourself. But a lot of people use that anonymity to posture in ways they never would in real life. Screen names make for some interesting alter egos. I just chose to be myself, and my faults and warts are just as visible as my assets. If I act like an ass, which I will admit I did do a bit last night, you know it's me and not some random dude named 1987TurboS.

Agree about people having alter egos.

Ill trade you for my sc. Then you can live with my 915 gearbox and ill live with your heavy steering. None of these cars are perfect. Even the long hoods - they rust quickly. I live in New York and could never own and drive one without fear, for more than a Handfull of dry sunny days per year.

A new Z28 would completely destroy a bone stock 930 at any dragstrip or road course in the world. Silly to think otherwise as they run a performance envelope the same a a new GT3. Every pro driver that has had a turn at the wheel has gone on record as saying the Z28 is one of the best track packages ever assembled by any manufacturer. Look, plenty of Porsche folk hate Camaros-whatever. The Z28 is the real deal. I don't have to like GTRs to acknowledge that they are capable performers-same with the Z28.

Getting back to the original post:

Second flipper done flipped it to a dealer!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/809178-1986-porsche-carrera-3-2-targa-red-red.html

That poor car must be dizzy after all that turn-around.

Wow..never was a fan of that dealer. They have had their share of shady cars, imo. I guess that this deal represent how they make money. But if the car is worth the asking to to buyer....God bless.