87 930 going up for sale - fair asking price in todays market? LONG POST

[JJK78-951]

Good evening everyone,

I am about to post my 87 930 for sale and with the way the market is, don't want to sell myself short and leave too much on the table. I can always go down on the price, harder to ask more once they like it

There are still a few minor things I need to tend to but for all intents and purposes it is ready to go. I did a small walk around video and have over 300 pictures, mostly of the motor/transmission rebuild available to check out through the link below. As well as more information then most of you will read, but I'm sure those who are interested in the car will appreciate it!

Thanks for taking the time - any opinions are appreciated~
J




1987 Porsche 911 Turbo (930) For Sale

Overview:
1987 Porsche 911 Turbo (930)
VIN # WP0JB0932HS050720
Production Date: January 22nd, 1987
Black Exterior – Paint Code A1
Black Leather Interior with Red Piping – Type VD
96,678 Miles
Matching Numbers with Porsche COA
2 Owner Car – Clear Carfax

Optional Equipment:

Steering Wheel w/ Raised hub
Lumbar Support Seat – Left
Blaupunkt Radio “Reno”
Electric Sliding Sunroof
Limited Slip Differential
US Standard Emissions
Alarm System
Dunlop Tires

Option Codes:

C02
018
158
220
533
586
650

Links to additional pictures and a walk around video:

1987 Porsche 930 walk around video - 1987 Porsche 930 911 Turbo For Sale - YouTube

1987 Porsche 930 911 Turbo For Sale Current Pictures - https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=315BA54AA5C355E3!602&authkey=!ABoTOEBZ 1P1FUFU&ithint=folder%2c.JPG

First pictures of car - Engine and Transmission rebuild pics - https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=315BA54AA5C355E3!354&authkey=!AJPwEOS_-Rsg9js&ithint=folder,.JPG

More pictures including underbody pics - Interior pics before final detail - https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=315BA54AA5C355E3!560&authkey=!AEXtSYjK CMcvQOo&v=3&ithint=photo,.JPG



Recent Work Performed:
Full Engine Rebuild (Details Below)
Full Transmission Rebuild
New Clutch
Drive Axles Rebuilt
Starter Rebuilt
New Battery
New ALUMINUM Fan Housing
Fuel Pump Check Valves
New Distributor Cap
New Distributor Rotor
New Spark Plugs – W3DP0
New Karlyn Spark Plug Wire Set
New Oil Filter
New Fuel Filter
New A/C Belt
New Alternator Belt
New Tires – BFG G-Force Sport C2 245/50/16 & 225/50/16
New Oil Line - Turbo Scavenge Pump to Oil Tank
New Oil Lines – Oil Thermostat to Oil Cooler (Brass Body Lines Due to Jack Under car)
New Oil Lines Body Oil Lines to Oil Cooler
New Timing Chain Tensioner Oil Lines
New Fuel Pump Relays
New Alarm Control Unit
New Door Contact Switches
New Windshield Washer Pump
New Fog Light Lenses
New License Plate Lights
New Hood Shocks
New Deck lid Shocks
New Drivers Door Lock Solenoid
New Wipers Blades
New Hood Emblem
New Engine Noise Pad

History: 9.0~
I bought this car as a project approximately a year ago with the intention of restoring/fixing/refreshing and uniting it with a worthy new owner. You can see the first introduction of the car to the Pelican forums in this thread - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/750528-87-turbo-90k-miles-needs-valve-guides-25k.html

This example has been a southern car its’ entire life and was originally purchased by the original owner from Brumos Porsche, delivered on March 18th 1987. Service records from the first owner indicate that it was exclusively serviced at the Brumos dealership or European specific service centers every 3000-5000 miles with the last record in the maintenance book April 22nd, 1997. Additional repair and maintenance records from the second owner also indicate service work was performed at European specific service centers totaling more then $6,000.

I purchased the car from the 2nd owner who used it for weekend fun and to drive to his home in Florida. I have not registered the car but have the clear title in hand from the previous owner so you will officially be the 3rd owner of this car.

At approximately 94,818 miles the car started smoking and it was thought that the turbocharger was at fault. They opted to go ahead and replace it with a brand new K27/7200 unit from Ultimate Motorwerks, but it did not solve the smoking issue and was not driven much after that. He then needed a new truck for his business and decided to sell the car to help fund it, which is when I acquired it with 96,450 miles.

I am an apprentice mechanic and have been working on Porsches for the past 5 years and currently work at a Porsche repair and restoration shop in Marietta, GA where the car is currently located. I performed most of the work on the car myself; all advanced tasks were performed by or under the guidance of a 35 year Porsche mechanic. I can also provide receipts for all work done on the car.

Engine: 9.0~
Engine # 68H00730 (M93/68)

The numbers matching engine is essentially stock with the exception of the K27 turbocharger, a Perma-Tune CDI box and the B&B Muffler which I just installed. The air pump and other emission control systems have also been removed from the car, holes in the heads properly plugged. The engine was running well but was definitely burning oil once warmed up, which was the reason for the rebuild.

The engine was pulled at 96,650 miles and fully torn down with no surprises, valve guides were the culprit. All components were cleaned, inspected and measured to insure everything was within tolerances, if it was not, or even close, it was replaced. All wear items were replaced such as timing chains, timing gears, cam gears, bearings, rings etc. See below for a full list of items replaced.

The cylinder heads were rebuilt by a former Porsche factory race mechanic who worked at the factory in Germany on the 935 and 962 race cars. All intake and exhaust valves were replaced along with the guides, seats cut, stem seals, exhaust studs, guides honed, and spring heights set all to factory specifications.

Case halves and mating surfaces were sealed with proper sealants such as Loctite 574, absolutely no silicone or RTV was used.

During the rebuild I also noticed that the original fan housing was showing signs of magnesium deterioration and had some cracked mounting posts so I went ahead and replaced it with a brand new aluminum fan housing to ensure that it does not happen again. I have kept all of the original parts that were replaced which are included with the car if you want them.

Parts replaced:

Full Engine Gasket Set
Cylinder Head Gasket Set
Main Bearing Set
Rod Bearing Set
Intermediate Shaft bearings
Camshaft Drive Gear
Timing Chain Idler Gear
All Rocker Shafts
Timing Chains – Solid Racing
RSR Rocker Shaft O-Rings added
Timing Chain Rails
Piston Rings
Connecting Rod Bolts
Connecting Rod Nuts
Timing Chain Sprockets
Intake Valves
Valve Guides
Exhaust Valves
Timing Chain Tensioner Seals
Exhaust Studs
Connecting Rods Rebuilt – New wrist pin bushings
Valve Stem Seals
Solid Oil Tubes
Heater Hose
Shell Rotella used for Break In
Case of Brad Penn Oil included


Transmission: 9.0~
Transmission # 77H01178 (G93/36)

The transmission is also numbers matching and was optioned with a factory Limited Slip Differential. It was operating smoothly but still opted to go through it since it was out. The gearbox was rebuilt by a former Porsche Factory Race technician and even though it operated fine some major items were showing were so they were replaced. Here is a list of all items replaced in the gearbox:

ALL Synchros 1st-4th
1st-2nd Gear Synchro OP Sleeve
2nd Gear Dogteeth
3rd Gear Dogteeth
Clutch Kit
Lock Nuts for Pinion & Main shaft
Pressure Plate Bolts
Flywheel Bolts
Reverse Light Switch
Shifter Coupler Bushings
Gasket Set
Swepco 201 Gear lube

More to come...

[JJK78-951]

Interior: 8.0~
The black interior is accented with red piping which is in very good shape with no rips or tears, but does show standard wear for its age. It appears that the drivers’ seat bottom has been recovered and is not original. The drivers’ side rear seat bottom appears to have gotten wet and shows some damage but could be easily replaced or recovered.

My detailer went over the interior and cleaned up a lot of the wear spots very well such as the door where you grab the handle and the steering wheel as you can see in the final pictures. The steering wheel shows the worst wear but is still in very good shape.

The headliner is in good condition with only a small area around the sunroof opening which has a small tear. The sunroof was serviced and new sunroof seals were added in 2011. The dashboard is very nice but does have some very small cracks in the center with the biggest about 2 inches long. The door seals are in good condition but both the driver and passenger side have tears at the bottom presumably from feet getting in and out of the car.

The factory radio has been replaced by a previous owner who installed an Alpine stereo system in the car. 3 CD head unit, 4 channel amplifier and speakers. Unfortunately the factory radio was not included with the car.


Electric: 9.0~
The car had a few problems with the electrical when I got it but have been able to sort most everything out. I have tested everything on the car and there are a few items which are not working that I was not able to take care of, if it is not noted then it is in good working condition but feel free to ask any specific questions you may have.

The most obvious problem was that the speedometer was not working all of the time, sometimes showing the correct speed, other times just showing 0 mph. The mileage was still counting correctly, but apparently the circuit board blew a few capacitors and resistors. I sent it off and had the speedometer professionally repaired~

The factory alarm system was disabled by a previous owner due to a power drain problem. This has been taken care of but I have opted to leave the factory alarm disconnected which is labeled in the fuse box. While tracking this problem down I replaced the door contact switches as well as the alarm control module with a brand new factory unit but the problem was simply a grounding issue with one of the interior lights which kept the 12v system on.

The factory boost gauge in the tachometer appears to be bad as it says pegged with the ignition on and when grounding the signal wire the gauge does not respond. I asked the speedometer repair shop if it could be fixed and they said they could not, but I have not contacted anyone else about fixing it so it is still broken. The rear window wiper motor was burned up but thanks to the Pelican Forums I was able to find a good used unit so it is now working again!

Suspension/Steering: 8.0~
The suspension and steering appear all stock but feel very tight for a car of its age. All components appear to be in good condition. The tie rod end boots are cracking and could use replacing so the ends themselves don’t get damaged, but otherwise ok.


Brakes: 7.5~
The brakes are all stock and have plenty of life left in them. Front brakes pads are approx. 80% and the rotors are in excellent condition with no notable lip. Rear brake pads are about 50%, but the rotors have developed a lip and will need to be replaced next time the pads are due.

Wheels/Tires: 9.0~
The car has original Fuchs wheels, 16 x 7 in front and 16 x 9 in the rear. All wheels are straight and true with no curb rash, but also have been refinished at some point in their life. I have installed brand new tires on the Fuchs and it is nearly impossible to get a matched pair of correct size tires for these cars anymore so I opted for a matched set BFG G-Force Sport C2’s in 225/50/16 in front & 245/50/16 in the rear.

The spare wheel is in excellent condition and appears to have never been used. Car has the jack, air compressor and tool kit, although the tool kit is not original to the car and appears to be from a Porsche 944~

[whiterabbit]

I would register it legitimately and drive it a few thousand miles to maximize the price. Lots of people will be turned off by a car with all this work that has not been driven at all recently unless your shop is offering a warranty on the work? The add reads like the car has only been driven 28 miles?

Also it is not 2 owner, I would put 3 owner.

[JJK78-951]

Thanks for the reply~ I am confident in the work done and may offer some kind of warranty to the new owner, but need to talk with my boss before I could do that.

The ad reads correctly, 28 miles is all because it is not registered. I drove the car about 200 miles to give it a shakedown and figure out what it needed, then proceeded with the refresh.

Yes truly it is a 3 owner car at this point, but as I have not registered it the person who buys it will be listed as the 3rd owner. Not trying to hide anything, but as I bought the car as an investment registering it and driving it a few thousand miles would be super sweet, but it's just not in the cards~

Thanks!
J

[Matt Monson]

Some people won't touch such an expensive car that isn't titled in your name. not only is the sale illegal if there are title issues they have no recourse through you. You have no legal accountability but got their money. Will likely cost you more than the rev and taxes in lost sales price.

I wouldn't touch that car personally and I have a good idea where the work was done and trust the standard. You actually serve yourself naming names and disclosing you did it as an employee of the shop so no receipts other than parts.

[SilberUrS6]

I agree that the lack of title in your name looks shady and I personally wouldn't buy from someone who didn't have the car in their name. I will only buy from the legal owner of the car. And the person on the title is the legal owner.

That has nothing to do with you - I'm covering my own butt. Register the car in your name, then sell it. Otherwise the price is going to be lower, because the market will be smaller.

[WPOZZZ]

That is a nice car, but the mileage and mods will turn some people off. FWIW, I sold my 86 turbo with 99k in Feb or March 2013 for $27k. The motor was fresh (1k on it) and highly modded. I had Recaro seats and Hartmann wheels on the car. Cosmetically, I would say it was a 7 interior and 7 exterior.

Your car looks good, but again, the mileage and mods will limit your market. The market has change dramatically since I sold my 86. Your car is a good driver quality car, and will be worth much more than what I sold mine for, because of the market change. My guess is your car is worth between $35k-$43k, maybe a little more.

[Tt surgeon]

Yes, now that the car is done, you need to register it properly.
The closer to stock, the more it's worth. Stock ic, stock turbo, stock headers, stock muffler.
As is, with mods, 45-50k. Potentially more, interior looks rough, no tools or factory air pump, etc, all affect price.

[JJK78-951]

Thanks for the reply Matt. I understand what you are saying about the title, but I know there are no issues with it and only live about an hour away from the previous owner. I am certainly not trying to defraud anyone and have never had any issues in the past.

As far as where the work was done I would be amazed if you know my shop as we are a very small restoration shop in Marietta who does not advertise, although we did put up a website last year. Since we are not paying advertisers here I don't want to put the website out there but am glad to send it to you via PM if you would like it.

I appreciate all the feedback... Anyone have any thoughts as to the value?

[WPOZZZ]

For top dollar, put the stock exhaust back on and source a 3LDZ turbo. Also, fix the boost gauge. Contact North Hollywood Speedometer or Palo Alto Speedometer and see if they can fix it.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by JJK78-951

. I understand what you are saying about the title, but I know there are no issues with it and only live about an hour away from the previous owner.

I think you misunderstand.

There is a problem with the title. It's not in your name. And I wouldn't buy the car from anyone but the legal owner. There may be nothing shady going on, but there might be. So, to protect myself, I'd never buy a car from a person who didn't have the clear title in his own name.

I'm not the only one. In fact, when you go to places that tell you how to buy a used Porsche, they all say to carefully consider all title issues. This fact alone hurts the overall value of your car. By a lot, IMO.

[Matt Monson]

You aren't breaking any rules saying your shop. This isn't an IB forum with vendor Nazis. You only help your sale.

The fact you know the legal owner does nothing for me 2500 miles away. If I have an issue in my state who says he will help me? It's business. And you are jumping title. If you are willing to break that law you lose all credibility as a seller to many of us.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I think you misunderstand.

There is a problem with the title. It's not in your name. And I wouldn't buy the car from anyone but the legal owner. There may be nothing shady going on, but there might be. So, to protect myself, I'd never buy a car from a person who didn't have the clear title in his own name.

I'm not the only one. In fact, when you go to places that tell you how to buy a used Porsche, they all say to carefully consider all title issues. This fact alone hurts the overall value of your car. By a lot, IMO.

I agree about the title issues. If I pay $40k for a car, I want to pay the legal owner whose name is on the title. If there are any problems with the transaction, I have legal recourse against that person. If I paid Joe Blow for the car and it is titled to Donkey Kong, I have no recourse against Joe Blow who now has my money.

It will cost you some money to title the car in your name and to insure it, but in the end it will make for an easier transaction.

[Tt surgeon]

My current car arrived needing a total rebuild, to stock. I didn't title it until it was running bc in NYS you need an inspection. You can bet the first thing I did was get a title, as the 8.5% sales tax was very painful, it had to be done.

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I agree that the lack of title in your name looks shady and I personally wouldn't buy from someone who didn't have the car in their name. I will only buy from the legal owner of the car. And the person on the title is the legal owner.

That has nothing to do with you - I'm covering my own butt. Register the car in your name, then sell it. Otherwise the price is going to be lower, because the market will be smaller.

Well nothing shady about it - I certainly wouldn't go to this extent to defraud anyone. I have a bill of sale etc. and can put you in touch with the PO if necessary, but thanks for the feedback~

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

That is a nice car, but the mileage and mods will turn some people off. FWIW, I sold my 86 turbo with 99k in Feb or March 2013 for $27k. The motor was fresh (1k on it) and highly modded. I had Recaro seats and Hartmann wheels on the car. Cosmetically, I would say it was a 7 interior and 7 exterior.

Your car looks good, but again, the mileage and mods will limit your market. The market has change dramatically since I sold my 86. Your car is a good driver quality car, and will be worth much more than what I sold mine for, because of the market change. My guess is your car is worth between $35k-$43k, maybe a little more.

Market has changed quite a bit since march of last year Mods are pretty minimal with only a CDI box, turbo and muffler away from stock (stock muffler included btw). plus the radio but those can be found~
Thanks!

[WPOZZZ]

It doesn't matter if you have a bill of sale. Not having the car titled in your name will put off some people. In my state, I can have a clear title to my car, but if I had unpaid tickets, unpaid registration... the title cannot be transferred. If the titled seller's state is like that, there are risks.

And yes, the market is crazy! I sold my 86 and went to look at a 07 997tt, but passed on it as it was too modern. Instead I bought a 77 930 with 39k on it and well, I'm enjoying the ride!

[JJK78-951]

Clearly based on the response here I need to go register the car in my name

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You aren't breaking any rules saying your shop. This isn't an IB forum with vendor Nazis. You only help your sale.

CheckPoint Auto Marietta GA,Porsche Restoration
Thanks
J

[Tt surgeon]

Get a clear title, market it on eBay with a 50k reserve and see what happens.
Make sure the pics are good and very flattering, have it professionally detailed, etc.
Glws
C

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by JJK78-951

CheckPoint Auto Marietta GA,Porsche Restoration
Thanks
J

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