“These cars have been undervalued for decades,”...

[tdw28210]

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/the-skyrocketing-prices-of-air-cooled-911s--and-best-porsches-to-snatch-while-they-re-still-cheap-182212849.html

[KNS]

I'll agree with those comments that the cars will disappear from the roads much quicker as they're squirreled away in collections, rarely seeing daylight.

I've said it before: while nobody wants to see their cars plummet in value, I don't want to see them skyrocket either. It's no fun owning a car that you have to worry about out in the parking lot.

[speeder]

It also sucks when they all disappear from the roads. These were high-end driver cars for decades.

[COLB]

How expensive does a car have to be before your quit driving it, or get concerned about parking it?

The best 3.2s are worth $10-20k less than a new Boxster -- and people drive those without undue concern.

I get the sentiment of the article, but we are a LONG WAY from post-73 911s being hanger queens.

[KNS]

Boxsters are easily replaceable with thousands of cars to choose from. State Farm (or whomever it is) will even buy you the next newest model to replace yours. Can't do that with a 3.2. It's not the expense, it's the difficulty in finding another one like it.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by KNS

Boxsters are easily replaceable with thousands of cars to choose from. State Farm (or whomever it is) will even buy you the next newest model to replace yours. Can't do that with a 3.2. It's not the expense, it's the difficulty in finding another one like it.

I guess it depends on the options on the car. An unusual color and very low mileage, I agree. If you are driving the only paint-to-sample Gulf Blue 86 coupe in existence, that car might be hard to replace.

But there are plenty cars for sale if you are willing to pay market (retail) for one -- like a new Boxster.

If you got in at $15k, and have been subsequently priced out of the market if you had to replace it -- then yes, I can see that leading to cars getting parked.

But they are not that rare, and at the $35k price point there are a lot to choose from if you are not limited to buying local.

If it is insured at market value, I don't see the issue.

[speeder]

I want to find a good early car and drive it. It's not like I'm going to be around forever.

[Nick Triesch]

My friends 08 Cayman was $64,000 when he ordered it. He drives it all over the place all the time. Never bothered him. But on the other hand it is now valued at $35,000. Holy Smokes!

[KNS]

If the Cayman (or Boxster) was totaled, stolen, etc., searching for and purchasing another wouldn't be nearly the ordeal as trying to find an air cooled car either. No dealer is going to swoop in in the middle of your negotiations with the seller, no flippers buying the Cayman you were speaking with the seller about and upping the offer. No Caymans disappearing within hours of being listed before you can even pick up the phone.

Advantages and disadvantages to owning (and buying) both.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by COLB

I guess it depends on the options on the car. An unusual color and very low mileage, I agree. If you are driving the only paint-to-sample Gulf Blue 86 coupe in existence, that car might be hard to replace.

But there are plenty cars for sale if you are willing to pay market (retail) for one -- like a new Boxster.

If you got in at $15k, and have been subsequently priced out of the market if you had to replace it -- then yes, I can see that leading to cars getting parked.

But they are not that rare, and at the $35k price point there are a lot to choose from if you are not limited to buying local.

If it is insured at market value, I don't see the issue.

How easily, with the current sharks out there, would it be to replace your '88? My '84 is insured at market value. I really don't think I'd find another one like it and I would not look forward to the task (much easier five or ten years ago). In fact, I'd probably throw my hands in the air and say "F" it and seek out a 997 or Cayman.

[wally509]

Sorry for the newbie question here, only had my car for a couple years but...are these cars that hard to fix that people are worried about them getting totaled? When I read this thread I keep seeing "hard to replace" inferring that a minor to moderate unfall will total the car requiring one to completely replace it.

I know quite a few guys that vintage race some pretty valuable cars. I mean real ones with period race history, not made up cars like most are at the vintage races these days (but I digress). When asked if they are concerned about wrecking them they say "if it gets wrecked we fix it, there's nothing that can't be fixed".

[COLB]

Originally Posted by KNS

How easily, with the current sharks out there, would it be to replace your '88? My '84 is insured at market value. I really don't think I'd find another one like it and I would not look forward to the task (much easier five or ten years ago). In fact, I'd probably throw my hands in the air and say "F" it and seek out a 997 or Cayman.

If I am trying to buy one in similar condition for $10k under market, pretty difficult -- that is the pool where the sharks are swimming, and that is the circumstance you are describing with "flippers" and dealers swooping in to spoil the sale.

I'm not saying its easy, but it isn't such an impossibility that it would deter me from driving my car…after all, that is the point of having it.

The second best part of driving it is the hunt to buy one.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by wally509

Sorry for the newbie question here, only had my car for a couple years but...are these cars that hard to fix that people are worried about them getting totaled? When I read this thread I keep seeing "hard to replace" inferring that a minor to moderate unfall will total the car requiring one to completely replace it.

I know quite a few guys that vintage race some pretty valuable cars. I mean real ones with period race history, not made up cars like most are at the vintage races these days (but I digress). When asked if they are concerned about wrecking them they say "if it gets wrecked we fix it, there's nothing that can't be fixed".

Your buddies are right, everything can be fixed. Not an expert, but I think the race car world is a bit different. "Real" race cars, are acceptable with some level of race-induced damage. However, the road car, short-hood air-cooled 911's are experiencing a significant price bump due to the collector market deciding they are now worth owning/garaging/trailering.

In that world, an "unrepaired" totally original 911 is much more desirable than one that has been reconstructed, even with better, more modern parts. It is how collector value things. And these cars are "hard to replace". Try locating some of the 35 year old plastic bits in good original condition that go in these cars. It is nearly impossible as time does not treat the plastic well. In a race car, you can buy most of the necessary parts off the shelf.

I drive mine on weekends, but I doubt I will ever track her - too much downside, especially now. And mine is in "rolling restoration" mode. I buy parts I know I will need in the future, but I hold off on installing them as long as possible. I intend to keep doing that, until the market get stooopid crazy, at which point I will restore, put her away and drive something else.

[Matt Monson]

The people who own real period correct racecars are in a different income tax bracket than most of us.
I have a former employee whose sole employment is to crew for a vintage Ferrari racer. The guy owns about half a dozen Ferrari racecars, most with factory history, including a NART. And he races them. When you are worth $100 Million, have $25 million worth of toys car, you can afford to spend $200k to repair a car after a shunt.

Now not everyone vintage racing is like that. Some people owned the cars so long that a car worth $750k today was bought for $20k in 1980. That guy might be worth a couple million and willing to take his chances wrecking a $200k 1970 911s. Still gonna cost him $40-50k to fix it after a major shunt but he's had it so long he doesn't really weigh the risk versus cost because he's just been doing it so long.

[Sunroof]

As an owner of a 1973.5T that I have owned going on 15+ years now, I can respond to several comments regarding paranoia associated with driving it.

My car was purchased for $9800.00 after the previous owner spent over $34,000 in a bare paint, mechanical and interior restoration, etc. During that time the price of long hoods were hovering at the $6,00 to $10,000 range depending on condition. They were afterall not expensive cars to purchase.

The real Porsche purists were desiring more of the "older car" driving experience rather then collectibility. As a longtime Porsche owner, the early 911's were really a game of chance considering the first 911's to be rust proofed (dipped) was the 1975 model. These old cars were very prone to rust which equated into costly repair. This made purchase prices lower as well as most needed floorboard replacements or the repair of the infamous rear seat tubs.

So lets jump forward 15 years or so and BANG the longhoods are priced beyond what is reachable to most budgets. I find it hard to believe that everytime I walk into my garage and look at ole "Misses Brown" I have to think, there sits a $50,000+ vehicle!!!! My oh my. Who would of thunk it!!!???

So now, I am driving a rare and costly classic. When I take the old gal out for a weekend exercise paranoia does set in........I become intensely defensive forever watching for that tail gater not having good brakes, that huge SUV with mirrors six feet off the pavement and me totally out of view knowing that this behemoth will come into my lane and cut me off or the kid in his old Honda with the large fart can exhaust trying to prove how much scrot he has! Accidents waiting to happen? I know that parts are very costly, hard to obtain and once hit, it all becomes documented and stays with the cars history forever. Not a good thing.

YES..............I have to be more on top of my my driving game more so then ever before. It won't be me causing a wreck No, I can no longer just take the attitude its just a CAR - just drive it.

Defensively its a great car, with the handling of a go-kart, the best in braking and acceleration like all rear engine Porsches. It can get you out of danger fast and high tail it away while the mob behind you bottle necks. I guess you get the best of all worlds with a longhood these days despite the heart pounding and adrenaline rush from both fear and apprehension knowing your in something very special. Porsche ownership.

Bob
1973.5T

[Matt Monson]

Thank Dog I no longer live in California. While those concerns exist on the rare occasion I go down to Denver on the interstate, most of my drives are in 45-50mph rated country rds and state hwys where my greatest concern is a cyclist who insists on riding double wide through a set of blind curves that I can take faster than he is choosing to because he would rather talk to his buddy than ride his bike.

[NYNick]

If you're afraid to drive your car, it's not worth owning. It's an old cliche', as old as the marque itself, but 'these cars were meant to be driven' holds as true now as it did 40 years ago. Anyone who's owned an air-cooled for more than a year has seen the "irrational exuberance" of the marketplace.

I'm in my cars for what I originally paid, not for what their worth today. If I needed the money, I'd sell it/them. For the love of gawd, drive your Porsche to work, to play, to the track or to a car show. You're not getting any younger and neither is your car. Unless you originally bought it as an retirement investment and part of your IRA, forget the price. You bought it to enjoy, not to worry about.

As my 75 year old great aunt once told me, "go for it". Dusty old cars in garages end up in somebody else's dusty old garage. What a waste.

Nick

[G450X]

I think the F car guys who purchased their then vintage steeds in the 70's are really who "made out" when their cars skyrocketed in the late 1980's. From what little I know about the early 911 Carrera RS's, they were always highly sought after because they were such fantastic driving machines, and they always commanded a decent price for their era.

I was on active duty in training in the late 1980's and while driving for a flight I noticed an interesting car headed the opposite direction with a long nose and covered headlights. At first I thought it was an old XKE (not very collectable then), but as it got closer I was shocked to see it was a mid 60's Ferrari 275 GTB.

I immediately turned around and followed it until he stopped at a market. They guy knew I was following him and he jumped out and we started to discuss his beautiful machine. It turns out that he was prior miltary and was a civilian flight instructor for the Army. He had purchased it (and a Fiat Dino spyder) in Italy when he was stationed there in the 70's. I don't recall the exact price he paid for it, but it was rediculously low - maybe $8,000.00 for both of them!

At the time I'd guess the car was worth at least $500k, now who knows. It's amazing how these low production beauties started to really be viewed as true works of art.

I recall worring about the car being totaled by some drunk with no insurance and I'm sure the nice gent had very little insurance coverage on it. I guess it would be like losing his nest egg in a stock market crash! It is indeed a quandry at that level for a "blue collar guy," but unless you are very lucky, those days of buying for pennies on the dollar are over, and the really rich guys can absorb that hit (so they can still enjoy driving them).

Most of our 911's (except special low production models and race cars - early RS??) will never see crazy apprciation like that, and part of me is glad. If my fun old SC suddenly became worth $100k I would "have" to sell it to fund my kids college with less strain. I'm glad the post '78 911's have really only went up a little in the grand scheme of things - I feel they are bringing more of what they're worth now and that they were way under valued for many years.

[Matt Monson]

G450X,
I agree with your comments about the old skool F car guys. I have a customer, completely unrelated to the above example, whose father bought the NART owned by the director of Ferrari racing in NA back then. Car was a 4 seater converted to a "targa" 2 seater with an engine swap to upgrade it to "race" spec. Truly a "Daytona Special" if you will. Car was never raced. Customer's dad and 2 buddies bought it for $16k in early 80's. Buddies eventually sold out their stake and dad restored it.
Car is a one of a kind. Actual value is anyone's guess. Beautiful car. Might be worth $20 million or more to the right Ferrari collector.

[Matt Monson]

And just because car guys love pictures.
If you look closely, you'll get a hint which well known Porsche team's garage houses this car currently.