Ebay late comers ruining auctions... my pet peeve

[914agogo]

so I had this happen a few times now where a bidder swoops in at the last second stealing it from other bidders who did their due diligence BEFORE dropping their bid, sending questions, asking for more specific photos and even coming in person to check it for themselves.
These late comers/snipers bidders then they have questions , concerns and demands AFTER auction is over when they are the winners.

From my experience these bidders almost always fail to perfom and follow through costing you time, money and Ebay hassle to get your final value fee refunded.

Ebay may give them a strike?? big deal
no real consequences
these guys are gambling with our time and often puts a cloud over your item..
yeah sure you can send second chance offers but Ebay warns of scammers using that venue so not really a viable alternative.
I have sent 4 second chance offers on 2 cars and the response was suspicion at best, "why did the first guy not buy it?" they may think there was there something wrong or misrepresented.
Ahhh nothing like having a prospect inspecting it to satisfaction in the flesh.
At least they are within "choking range" GRRR...

[vracer]

I think you just have to chalk it up to "the cost of doing business", and do some deep breathing. I know it is easy for an amateur like me to say, but for a pro or semi-pro, that's what's happening in today's market. From my point of view, I see ebay as a great advertising tool, not a sales tool.

[BK911]

When I see this happen I assume seller has another account and tried to initiate a bidding war.

By "this" I mean when I receive a second chance offer.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by 914agogo

so I had this happen a few times now where a bidder swoops in at the last second stealing it from other bidders who did their due diligence BEFORE dropping their bid, sending questions, asking for more specific photos and even coming in person to check it for themselves.
These late comers/snipers bidders then they have questions , concerns and demands AFTER auction is over when they are the winners.

From my experience these bidders almost always fail to perfom and follow through costing you time, money and Ebay hassle to get your final value fee refunded.

Ebay may give them a strike?? big deal
no real consequences
these guys are gambling with our time and often puts a cloud over your item..
yeah sure you can send second chance offers but Ebay warns of scammers using that venue so not really a viable alternative.
I have sent 4 second chance offers on 2 cars and the response was suspicion at best, "why did the first guy not buy it?" they may think there was there something wrong or misrepresented.
Ahhh nothing like having a prospect inspecting it to satisfaction in the flesh.
At least they are within "choking range" GRRR...

I've heard of this, but never experienced it. I usually go to Craigslist first. The same people are there and you can make it a clean sale without broadcasting the ones who flake out. Put the right car for sale up on Los Angeles Craigslist and you'll get responses from all over Europe as well as the US.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by vracer

I think you just have to chalk it up to "the cost of doing business", and do some deep breathing. I know it is easy for an amateur like me to say, but for a pro or semi-pro, that's what's happening in today's market. From my point of view, I see ebay as a great advertising tool, not a sales tool.

Right on. It is extremely frustrating though to say the least. I sold a good car on eBay THREE times and everyone flaked out. Sold it on Craigs....

[ficke]

Originally Posted by BK911

When I see this happen I assume seller has another account and tried to initiate a bidding war.

By "this" I mean when I receive a second chance offer.

Yup, and you are not the only one who believes things that did not happen and that is why it really ruins the auction as stated by the OP.
luckily the dealers are not so jaded and can still by the cars and sell them ( at a profit) to the skeptic public.

[PushingMyLuck]

A properly priced car will sell.
I would adv. on Ebay and CL at the same time.
Can you include your CL link in your Ebay ad?
You know what I imply with this tactic

[Cajundaddy]

Bid sniping and shill bidders working for the seller have rigged the ebay auction game to the point that I no longer play.
Auction sniping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Every transaction has it's inherent costs but I no longer find auctions useful. A buy-it-now on something I really want still has it's value. I trade frequently on Craigslist and carefully control the transaction to make sure it is safe. On new items, Amazon is a sure thing.

[PushingMyLuck]

There's nothing inherently wrong with sniping.
Take the 2 minutes and learn to do it yourself.
Go ahead and enter your maximum bid either way.
You never pay a dime more than you're willing to pay.

Shill bidders are another story. But, I doubt people are going to jeopardize their car sale by accidentally winning their own auction. Now, they are out 10% of the sale price. Easier to put in a reserve price and relist until you get your price.

[atcjorg]

I am a sniper ok lemme explain. I have paid for every auction I have won. I bid with 5 sec to go in the auction and I bid what I am willing to pay. no point getting into a bidding war a week before the auction ends, and then there are the numbnuts that peck at it looking for the current bid, then you have shill bidding, my technique deals with everything but bot bidding. If I don't win my point of view is the winner paid too much, and I just move along but I keep the listing in my ebay in case it's relisted. good luck with ebay and have a nice day

[trader220]

I buy and sell a lot on eBay and I have used a third party program to snipe for me. I got sick of losing out on auction in the last 30 seconds. This way I dont have to tip my hand and I just enter the max I am willing to spend.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Bid sniping and shill bidders working for the seller have rigged the ebay auction game to the point that I no longer play.

Bid sniping is legitimate bidding technique and serves the purpose of eliminating emotionally-driven bidding wars. As long as you bid the maximum amount you are willing to pay, bid sniping is irrelevant. What's the difference between being outbid 3 days before the auction ends, or 3 seconds before the end?

Shill bidding doesn't hurt bidders, either. A seller that arranges shill bidding is, in essence, establishing a reserve on the item. Again, as a bidder, who cares? Whether they use a reserve or a shill, what's the difference? It doesn't bother me as a bidder, but I don't condone it as a seller - it does rob eBay of reserve auction fees.

[dienstuhr]

Originally Posted by dtw

Shill bidding doesn't hurt bidders, either. A seller that arranges shill bidding is, in essence, establishing a reserve on the item. Again, as a bidder, who cares? Whether they use a reserve or a shill, what's the difference? It doesn't bother me as a bidder, but I don't condone it as a seller - it does rob eBay of reserve auction fees.

Actually, shill bidding is wrong, prohibited by eBay rules, and in many jurisdictions, illegal.

As a bidder, you SHOULD care about shill bidding. It doesn't just "establish a reserve", it is intended to artificially inflate the sale price of an item. You're assuming that only the first bid is a shill bid and once that amount is exceeded the auction will run legitimately. But many shill bidders keep bidding throughout the auction, just to drive the bid price up. If you're the winning bidder, shill bidding costs you real money.

Regards

d.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by dienstuhr

Actually, shill bidding is wrong, prohibited by eBay rules, and in many jurisdictions, illegal.

And I stated clearly in my post that as a seller, I don't condone it, because it robs eBay of their reserve fees.

Originally Posted by dienstuhr

As a bidder, you SHOULD care about shill bidding. It doesn't just "establish a reserve", it is intended to artificially inflate the sale price of an item. You're assuming that only the first bid is a shill bid and once that amount is exceeded the auction will run legitimately. But many shill bidders keep bidding throughout the auction, just to drive the bid price up. If you're the winning bidder, shill bidding costs you real money.

Regards

d.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If you bid late ("snipe"), then it shouldn't matter when or how often the shill bidding occurs. Whatever the last shill bid is, is functionally the reserve price. All my bids go in during the last 10 seconds of an auction. They can shill all they want until then - all I care about is what I am willing to pay. If the reserve or artificial bidding is above that amount, then that's my loss. If it isn't, I win and everyone's happy.

Again, I think any seller that uses shills to establish a reserve is unscrupulous. Some sellers use low shill bids just to get some activity going on their auctions - harmless enough, and mostly for the peace of mind of the seller. But again, I think using shills to set a reserve is just a chicken@!t way to bypass eBay's reserve fees.

[techweenie]

Bid what you're willing to pay. Snipes won't matter; shills won't matter.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Bid what you're willing to pay. Snipes won't matter; shills won't matter.

That's not completely true.

If you are willing to pay $100, and there are shills, you may end up getting the item for $100, but without the shills you may have been able to get it for $50.

So, yes, you didn't pay more than the max you were willing to pay, but you might have paid more than you "should" have ("should" because shills are improper).

I've bought and sold many cars on eBay. The most recent sale in the past 6 months and the most recent purchase in the last 3. IMO, as a place to buy and sell cars, it has changed quite a bit over the past few years. For whatever reason, there are more "games" now, esp. people that "win" the auction and then flake out.

It's so much so, that I can pretty much tell when a "sold" car will be relisted. The one I bought a few months ago (which turned out to be local to me), it was "sold" at a price nowhere near what I was willing to pay. I was 100% certain that it would not really trade hands at that price, and like clockwork it was relisted due to a deadbeat buyer a bit later.

It didn't sell at the relisted auction, then went dormant. I waited a few weeks to call the guy (give him some time to think about how sucky getting jerked round by the ebay process was for him!), went over to his house with cash (which was around 60% of the "sold" price) and did the transaction.

[McLovin]

But I still think eBay is an essential place if you are looking to buy or sell a car. It sure seems like it gets more eyeballs than anywhere else in the world.

You just have to know its limitations, and how it currently works in "real life."

[techweenie]

Yes and no. I have 500+ transactions on eBay. I've bought everything from cars to a buttload of smaller items.

A shill bid that's out of the value envelope will end up being the high bid and the item will be relisted.

So in a sense, you can't count on snatching a goodie at below-market value, but you also don't lose the ability to buy at market because of shills.

Cars on eBay are a bit different. I've bought and sold a car or two over the years as well. Last one about 10 months ago (bought).

About half the time, I see a car sold using eBay as a big international advertising platform instead of an auction. It's one reason eBay cut its fees on cars to a very tolerable level. Also -- worth mentioning -- although virtually everything else is a 'contract to buy,' a winning bid on a car is not an absolute commitment, according to eBay rules.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by techweenie

So in a sense, you can't count on snatching a goodie at below-market value, but you also don't lose the ability to buy at market because of shills.

Not to belabor, but I'm trying to understand what you're saying there.

Because assume the auction runs, and bidders drop out until there's only 2 bidders, you and the shill. You bid $50. He bids $55. You bid $60 and win.

Market was really $45 or $50. The shill bid was phony, a false indication of the market, and you ended up paying $60, above market. No?

[techweenie]

Why would I bid $60? I would bid what it's worth to me -- in your example, we can call it $50.

So shill bids $55 and the item is unsold and relisted. Maybe the shill bids again; maybe not. In any case, I bid what it's worth to me and no more. I rarely watch the end of an auction. Too much temptation to up a bid for emotional reasons.

The trick is to have the imagination to say to yourself: 'if someone else wins this at $XX, am I okay with that, or did I put in too low a bid?' It took years to get this right. I used to use auction sniper and I used to watch. I no longer do. I bid the max dollar amount I'm comfortable with and if I lose, no regrets.