1977 911S Valuation

[Upnorth 911]

Hi everyone,
I am considering purchasing a 1977 911S (first time owner), and would really appreciate your input regarding price and general advice.

It is a matching numbers car that has had minor paint work along with some engine/clutch work. It spent its life in CA from 77 to 94 where it was purchased by my local european auto repair shop (owner) in 1994 with around 175K miles. He has records (have not reviewed them yet) for all work that was performed. After purchasing it in 1994, he spent about 8 months of his personal time rebuilding the engine and clutch, and over the past 20 years has put about 15,000 miles on it to its current reading of 190K.

The major items were he took care of include chain tensioner update to carrera, valve work, new divilar studs with inserts, fan upgraded, air pop off valve, shocks, new windshield, new dash, replaced brakes, and a partial re-spray of its original (matches number) white.

It is a clean car which looks like it has good alignment on everything. He said it is a rust free car and didn't believe there were any accidents in its past. In my inspection I only found a very small 3/4" small line of developing rust on the edge of the rubber trim where the windshield meets the front fender. I have not seen it on a lift yet, or pulled the front headlights or door sill covers. The only body imperfection that I noted was the inside of the hood seemed to show a repair which was not visible from the outside. The hood paint could also be touched up as it wasn't perfect.

Things that I know of that do not work are the AC (no longer can get R-12 but works otherwise I was told), sunroof quit working and has not investigated it yet, seats are original but show wear for the 190K current mileage (no tears or cracks, but just worn), and still has the EGR system installed with air pump and reactors on it, and it has a few small oil drips.

He is asking $20K (but said he would be open for offers) for it and I just wanted to see what you think about this price, or if I should look for something else and spend a little more. I really like the simple look of this early 911, but just like the older 911's in general and am open to pretty much any style thru 98.

Sorry for being long winded on all of this, but I am an engineer, and analyze things a little too much most of the time......

[blucille]

you might want to edit or delete that second photo, as the license plate can be seen, some local sharks might just swoop in and grab it out from under you. With that being said, I would cast my vote that $20k is a good, fair price for both the buyer and seller....most $20k cars right now need some work, are rough around the edges, etc....this one looks good, and the mid-year cars are gaining popularity.

[Upnorth 911]

Thank you for your feedback and recommendation about the photo.

[Uncle Enzo]

This sounds like an 17-19k car based on the info you provided. Service records are key.

[Upnorth 911]

Here are a couple more photos

[CountD]

Looks like an old soft shoe, a car you could grow into and if you treated her right she would probably return the same. I would offer $17K as it gives you a little wiggle room to clean things up, etc.

In general, rust or corrosion just bothers me so I would tackle removing the front windshield and cleaning up the channel to make sure there are no more hidden surprises and replace with a new factory front windshield seal.

Other than than if all checks out the best thing you could do is DRIVE IT because it NEEDS TO BE DRIVEN.

You just don't want to keep getting moisture in there and having it rust. That channel, if rusted through leads to other places and then you have trouble.

It looks like a nice honest car though from the pics and the vibe I get. Looks like he did everything right and kept it all intact. Which is hard to do on a '77 as it's almost been 40 years.

If you offered $17K and met in the middle at $18.5K that still wouldn't be bad. But you still need to purchase things (like tires) so add this in.

[Matt Monson]

That car seems pretty solid to me. Miles may mean suspension and steering bushing in the near future. But the major mechanical seems sorted. I wouldn't walk away at his asking price, but I would try to negogiate. I doubt you will find a similar car cheaper.

[CountD]

...and three years ago people probably would have laughed at this price. But as I have said before, where are you going to find a clean midyear such as this in today's market? Far and few.

[TPorsche912]

Here's what Hagerty has to say about the car.

Ever-tightening emission control laws played havoc with engine longevity from 1975 until 1977. Unbelievably, Porsche’s answer to smog regs was heat, thermal reactors burned exhaust gasses and they even removed some fan blades to raise running temperatures. Few 2.7 liter U.S. spec cars made it past 75,000 miles before the engines went kablooey. Experienced Porsche engine builders can fix these issues today, but not if the car still has to pass smog tests. It’s a bit of a moot point anyway as few 1975-77 911s seem to have survived.

Looks like the owner needs to move the car for more room in the shop.

In the case of this particular car, the receipts are very important, and a little better info on his Porsche capabilities. Since it is already with a mechanic, I'd have him provide some compression and leak down results. Check for smoke at start up and running since these engines are known for valve guide wear. Sounds like he's already addressed the pulled stud issue and your pic doesn't show issues with oil leaks from case problems.

And then drive the car and see if it suits your taste. From your post it seems like you might not have a lot of experience in these cars, so finding someone that does and having them give an appraisal may be of value.

I doubt you could get in too much trouble at the price being given here if all the above mentioned items check out. Hagerty actually puts the value right at the already provided price recommendations.

Any idea of why the touch-ups were done and where on the car? Need to make certain that something isn't being camouflaged.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by CountD

...and three years ago people probably would have laughed at this price. But as I have said before, where are you going to find a clean midyear such as this in today's market? Far and few.

3 years ago I would have at an asking price of 10.

[thamlin000]

Nice car. I'd say $20k is fair. Upper teens is a good deal. Good luck.

As a comp, I spent $25k two months ago for my no-rust and well-sorted brown/cork 77 coupe with 93k mi and records/docs. 30k mi on rebuild and all the necessary mid year upgrades; head studs, carrera tensioners, fan, ssi, etc. I'd call this a pretty good deal but many folks would probably say I paid market value. Either way, I'm happy.

[Uncle Enzo]

To give you some ref I paid 17k for my mid 76 two years ago. Fresh motor with all the right updates as well as paint and new interior. In addition it had every service record since new down to new wipers. I did get a steal but deals do still exist.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

3 years ago I would have at an asking price of 10.

I stand corrected. What I should have said is 'People would have laughed, cried, busted-a-gut, rolled into the streets, chuckled, chortled, guffawed, cackled, giggled, snickered, and then the Porsche community as a whole would have both had the seller and buyer committed' for considering and/or asking $20K for this midyear three years ago.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I would n ot walk away at his asking price, but I would try to negogiate. I doubt you will find a similar car cheaper.

This is what it is now.
There just is not that many to chose from. You will have to get lucky to find the "deals"
This looks like a decent car for a decent price.

[Milesaway]

Hurry up and buy it already, prices went up 10% just while i was typing this 77's are the best years ever so you can't go wrong. GL

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by CountD

I stand corrected. What I should have said is 'People would have laughed, cried, busted-a-gut, rolled into the streets, chuckled, chortled, guffawed, cackled, giggled, snickered, and then the Porsche community as a whole would have both had the seller and buyer committed' for considering and/or asking $20K for this midyear three years ago.

Not correcting you. In full agreement and then some. -

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

Don't underestimate the extent of the rust under the botched windshield replacement.
That's a windshield out repair before you even know what's underneath.

Looks like rust behind the decklid latch.
I would look for a rust free specimen.

You live very far away from this car. Local conditions where you are are very different than across the border. Your $17k car is a $20k car after he imports it to Canada. And that's not even looking at the exchange rate. If this car is $20K Canadian?

[LUFTKUL]

I looked heavily all of last year and couldn't find just the right one, but every month prices crept and cars were gone in days. Now I don't look as heavily as I used to, but any decent air cooled under 20K, mid year or not, is gone in minutes, not days today. I ended up with a '77. Way more wrong with it than I anticipated, but those are salt/rust issues and no knock on the year. 77s look great and drive great if all the engine updates are done.

Car looks to be a $17,500 car.

Leather seat covers with foam are $2K
SSIs are $2K
Recurve that distributor $1K.

All three things I would do right away and that's $5K.

[LUFTKUL]

And count on that AC being completely useless from front to back. Needs freon my ass. That compressor is a great boat anchor.

I think new kits are $2500

[COLB]

Using a non-functioning a/c as a bargaining point on a sub-$20k 911 is borderline delusional.

It's not a perfect or even a well sorted car. If it were, the ask would be 10-15k more.