Title jumping

[Rick Brooklyn]

I'm looking at a car where the title is in the name of a different person than the seller. The seller sounds legit on the phone, and says the title is in the name of a friend who's currently in Europe (seller is european, too), but "it's already signed on the back".

I know it's hard to say, but how much of a concern do you think this is?

[MrBonus]

It would be of immense concern to me.

[BK911]

Some people care, some don't.
I personally don't.

[trader220]

Better hope there is no lien on the title or another title floating around

[NYNick]

Well, who's to say that's actually the seller's signature on the back, or not? However, many flippers/shops buy cars and never register or title them so as to avoid sales tax, and then resell the car with the original owners signed title. Happens ALL the time. ALL the time. Matter of fact, last two P-Cars I bought were exactly like that.

Just be careful. Check the title carefully. If the seller gives you the hee-bee jee-bees, dig deeper until you're satisfied.

But in itself, not a big deal.

[ficke]

Some states require the signature be witnessed by a notary, AZ. is one.
I like to see that on all titles that are signed and passed on.
Also make sure the vin. on title matches the one on car.
It really is a common illegal thing that people do, having a 'open' title, and I agree, not really a big deal.

[soundbehindyou]

+1 All the above - you may want to call your state MVD and see what they require.

[Matt Monson]

Answered on rl. What Nick and Ficke said.

[pmax]

Personally, I don't mind spending money on fixing these cars, but I would hate doing so on fixing the title paperwork.

Unless it's a great buy and it won't be given the seller's probably a flipper, I wouldn't bother.

Good luck with it though.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by pmax

Personally, I don't mind spending money on fixing these cars, but I would hate doing so on fixing the title paperwork.

Unless it's a great buy and it won't be given the seller's probably a flipper, I wouldn't bother.

Good luck with it though.

Thanks a lot everybody. It actually looks like a decent car on paper, albeit high mileage and not exactly cheap. As good as you're likely to find within 2hrs drive of New York I guess. Seller claims he's a "collector" and has a bunch of porsches including some longhoods.

Sounds like some more due diligence is in order though, before I spend half a day checking it out in person.

[Steve F]

Also watch for back fees , been down that road

[Patrick3000]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

It would be of immense concern to me.

x2

[2ndTARGA]

There's always risk when the seller is "not available". Some mitigating steps might include getting a bill of sale (notarized if possible) from the actual prior owner. Along with a copy of a photo ID.

If they're serious about selling (and the prior owner is actually involved) it's not a big deal for anyone to draw up and scan something over to you.

[sugarwood]

Why don't you ask to speak with the seller in Europe?
When you talk to him, ask him to send you a cam shot of his ID.
If there is something fishy, seller won't even entertain this idea.
If it's legit, wouldn't you be willing to speak to a potential buyer for a few mins?

[Chris Tallon]

^^^^^^^^
Yes, great idea. If the seller (agent) starts to squirm... you'll have your answer.

[PropellerHead]

I've been down a similar path. It depends on your goals with the car.
If you want to license/drive the car on public roads, you will need a title in your name. If the title isn't in the name of the seller, you are going to have a very, very difficult time. It may be worth the hassle.
If you intend to buy for parts, the need becomes less significant other than real proof of ownership.

Rules vary by state but one thing is pretty consistent - you need the state records to match your chain of custody/money trail. A title which doesn't match the state record is invalid and only the state record title holder can apply for a lost title without a whole lot of additional work.

My '71 911T had a very minor issue resulting from 30+ years of the same owner (an old lien was never officially signed off even though it had been settled decades ago. I had to go to the bank (now by a different name) and request they search their records and provide a sign-off. Took weeks to sort out and I was fortunate that I had a good working relationship with the prior owner. I very much wanted the history reflected correctly on the title and had documentation and cooperation from many people to make it happen including power of attorney, etc.

If the titled owner is/was unreachable......I wouldn't have been able to complete the same trail.

I walked on a parts car because of the issue you describe (title wasn't in the name of the guy in possession of the car who I would be handing the cash to). I kick myself somewhat as it was a restorable '69 911T coupe for what would be considered today as 'nearly free'. But after the headaches of a legit purchase to make correct, this one smelled too risky to me.

[NYNick]

Guys, Rich is in Brooklyn. Assuming the car is in NY State, a signed title is all he needs, regardless of who holds it. As long as it's a valid title, it's not a problem. Secondary dealers do this all the time.
Careful is one thing, paranoid is another.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Rick Brooklyn]

The car is in PA, but I think it works the same.

I will also need a bill of sale signed by the real title holder so I asked the seller if we'd be able to track him down if need be.

[Matt Monson]

Here in Colorado a dealer signs the title as part of the transaction but doesn't title it. There is a separate column on the back for dealer transfers. A dealer can assign the title to up to 4 dealers before it goes to an end user. A curbstoner can't do that because he has no dealer license.

[73.5TinPA]

If you are uncertain about the signed title, simply call the local Dept. of Motor Vehicles and ask someone if this is okay or not.