Help me figure out an appropriate price for this car

[fl4tsc]

http://w1w024.financeexpress.com/clients/automania/Inventory_Detail.aspx?qInventory_ID=2998526

So I've been looking pretty seriously into buying the 1987 carrera 3.2 linked above, but am having a hard time figuring out what a fair price for it is based on the history of the car.

Firstly, the dealer has no paperwork or records on the car. The Carfax doesn't show any accidents, but it does show a NAM (not actual mileage title). The dealer has told me the title they have shows nothing about the mileage not being accurate. Not really sure what to think about that.

Next, after talking to a company that did some work on the car a few years ago it turns out the car actually used to be a targa and was converted to a cab. It looks like it was well done but is that going to ruin the feel/handling/chassis of the car?

I was also told by the shop that it is not a true turbo wide-body car but an aftermarket conversion. Again not sure how negatively that effects its value.

Right now the dealer is asking $36,000 but I don't think they're even aware of the targa to cab conversion or that it's not a legit wide-body. Honestly, I'm not sure they've noticed, or care, that it's wide-body.


Cliff notes: 1987 Carrera 3.2 that was originally a targa but converted to cab. Has fake wide-body conversion, no maintenance history or paperwork, possibly a NAM title from Carfax. Is a car with this much 'history' even worth buying and if so for how much?


Some positives: Wevo shifter, appear to be speedline wheels, big red front brakes (993 maybe?), fabspeed exhaust, MAF conversion, and a really nice looking color/paint job.

Edit: PPI coming tomorrow from Franz Blam which should reveal quite a bit more information.

[fl4tsc]

Bump for getting sent straight to the 2nd page!

[fl4tsc]

Ooooops. Should be fixed now.

[pmax]

Interior's sharp. Like those seats.

No history is the major nit. The PPI should be thorough to uncover any accident history etc.
I assume you are looking for a cool driver in a desired color. This car looks like it. You can't go wrong with the G50 and the 3.2

Pricing is the tough one. But I can see paying 30k for this if I like the package.
A factory turbolook cab will cost you tons more.

Good luck.

[fl4tsc]

Exactly, I want a cool driver but I'm really worried I'll never be able to sell the thing for close to $30k down the road.
Plus the targa to cab conversion is worrying.
I just drove it for nearly an hour to the ppi and it feels solid.

[soundbehindyou]

Too Frankenstein for a "porchefile" - 24K tops and it will always be a tough sell down the road

[xbrumossalesman]

Car has been on Craigslist Atlanta for about 6 months

[pmax]

Like I said, tough one. You won't find a factory equivalent at this price even if you can find one.

Make sure your PPI includes removing the valve covers.

[NYNick]

My first thought? What a total rip! $36K for a converted Targa? Non original flares? NAM? What else has been bastardized?

This car will be a very hard resell down the road. I'd tread very carefully before spending $30K.

This car is way better. Bid $36k and it's yours, I bet.

Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible 2 Door | eBay

[Patrick3000]

Originally Posted by fl4tsc

Welcome to Automania of Austell, GA

So I've been looking pretty seriously into buying the 1987 carrera 3.2 linked above, but am having a hard time figuring out what a fair price for it is based on the history of the car.

Firstly, the dealer has no paperwork or records on the car. The Carfax doesn't show any accidents, but it does show a NAM (not actual mileage title). The dealer has told me the title they have shows nothing about the mileage not being accurate. Not really sure what to think about that.

Next, after talking to a company that did some work on the car a few years ago it turns out the car actually used to be a targa and was converted to a cab. It looks like it was well done but is that going to ruin the feel/handling/chassis of the car?

I was also told by the shop that it is not a true turbo wide-body car but an aftermarket conversion. Again not sure how negatively that effects its value.

Right now the dealer is asking $36,000 but I don't think they're even aware of the targa to cab conversion or that it's not a legit wide-body. Honestly, I'm not sure they've noticed, or care, that it's wide-body.


Cliff notes: 1987 Carrera 3.2 that was originally a targa but converted to cab. Has fake wide-body conversion, no maintenance history or paperwork, possibly a NAM title from Carfax. Is a car with this much 'history' even worth buying and if so for how much?


Some positives: Wevo shifter, appear to be speedline wheels, big red front brakes (993 maybe?), fabspeed exhaust, MAF conversion, and a really nice looking color/paint job.

Edit: PPI coming tomorrow from Franz Blam which should reveal quite a bit more information.

In this market $30 is a good price, enjoy!

[pmax]

Originally Posted by NYNick

This car is way better. Bid $36k and it's yours, I bet.

Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible 2 Door | eBay

Accident history.
Worn out interior.
Color's almost purplish, some may like it, I like the green better.

Not an easy resale either for this one.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by pmax

Accident history.
Worn out interior.
Color's almost purplish, some may like it, I like the green better.

Not an easy resale either for this one.

Agree on all points, but I've seen it and know the mechanics. Cheap 993.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by fl4tsc

Welcome to Automania of Austell, GA

So I've been looking pretty seriously into buying the 1987 carrera 3.2 linked above, but am having a hard time figuring out what a fair price for it is based on the history of the car.

Firstly, the dealer has no paperwork or records on the car. The Carfax doesn't show any accidents, but it does show a NAM (not actual mileage title). The dealer has told me the title they have shows nothing about the mileage not being accurate. Not really sure what to think about that.

Next, after talking to a company that did some work on the car a few years ago it turns out the car actually used to be a targa and was converted to a cab. It looks like it was well done but is that going to ruin the feel/handling/chassis of the car?

I was also told by the shop that it is not a true turbo wide-body car but an aftermarket conversion. Again not sure how negatively that effects its value.

Right now the dealer is asking $36,000 but I don't think they're even aware of the targa to cab conversion or that it's not a legit wide-body. Honestly, I'm not sure they've noticed, or care, that it's wide-body.


Cliff notes: 1987 Carrera 3.2 that was originally a targa but converted to cab. Has fake wide-body conversion, no maintenance history or paperwork, possibly a NAM title from Carfax. Is a car with this much 'history' even worth buying and if so for how much?


Some positives: Wevo shifter, appear to be speedline wheels, big red front brakes (993 maybe?), fabspeed exhaust, MAF conversion, and a really nice looking color/paint job.

Edit: PPI coming tomorrow from Franz Blam which should reveal quite a bit more information.

I agree with the $30k price point. The color combo is nice. It's a driver, and not an investment. It would be a great $30k if you plan on having fun with it and not selling it down the road. It would be a horrible $30k if you think that the car is going to pay for itself.

[fl4tsc]

So I had a pretty long conversation with the dealer today after the ppi.
Given everything going on with the car they've said they'll do $30k which seems pretty fair. Surprisingly the dealer has actually put nearly $40k into the car (paid $36.6 at auction) so I'm not really sure how to take that. The owner of the dealership seems to have bought it as a personal thing/hopefully profitable sale, but once the auction lost the maintenance history that went out the window and he has started putting more money into a 930 project instead of the 3.2.

So if I'm to believe their receipts are legit (I have no reason not to) should I be worried they're telling me they're taking a $10k hit to get rid of the car or just chalk it up to bad luck/bad business decision on their part?

As for the ppi, Franz was surprisingly positive about the car given the frankensteiness of it all. Didn't find a whole lot wrong with it except for a leaky right timing chain housing (otherwise the motor was dry underneath) and some other odds and ends. He thought it drove well, pulled strong and the motor sounded good. He did a leakdown test which gave a 9%, 10%, 8%, 12%, 11%, 9%. These numbers seem high, but Franz was actually really pleased with them and seemed to think the motor was in good shape (maybe his gauge consistently reads high??).
Finally, we did NOT pull the lower valve cover as he didn't seem to believe the head studs are an issue on the 3.2 as he had never seen one with a broken one before (in 30+ years) I also doubt he would have had the time and I didn't want to drop the money while still under the impression the car was $36k. He also pointed to the fact the motor was completely dry underneath as a good indicator the headstuds were intact.

Having driven it myself for about 2 hours today it seems like a surprisingly solid car given the questionable past, my biggest worry is still the ability to sell it down the road and does it have enough power. I have been cross-shopping this with a Cayman S and still can't decide if I'll miss the extra grunt.

[Uncle Enzo]

This car is way to hacked up at even 30k. For that sort of money you can do much better just have to be patient.

[johnvan8]

Originally Posted by fl4tsc

Surprisingly the dealer has actually put nearly $40k into the car (paid $36.6 at auction) so I'm not really sure how to take that.

How much a seller paid for a car is completely irrelevant to what a buyer should pay. Market value is market value, period. Don't get caught up in the fact that someone is losing money in the deal, it doesn't mean you got a better deal at all.

[xbrumossalesman]

The saying in the car business is "You can't pay too much for a nice car but you can never buy a made over car cheap enough" Remember this car was a Targa converted to a Cabriolet- Mileage unknown- "The auction lost the records" -there is a lot more going on than just cutting the top off of this car. Good that mechanically it got Franz's blessing but other than that be afraid...be very afraid.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by xbrumossalesman

The saying in the car business is "You can't pay too much for a nice car but you can never buy a made over car cheap enough" Remember this car was a Targa converted to a Cabriolet- Mileage unknown- "The auction lost the records" -there is a lot more going on than just cutting the top off of this car. Good that mechanically it got Franz's blessing but other than that be afraid...be very afraid.

^^^^run Forest run!

[Nachtfalter]

The car is a hatchet job. They converted and widened it because something was wrong with it.... plenty of states can wash a salvaged title, but I assure you, no one did this to a nice car. If the dealer really paid 36K for it at auction, they need to stop going to auctions drunk.
Walk away.

[euro1984]

Be careful with this dealer and the PPI.

I would never buy a car from any dealer in Austell period unless I physically went to look at it.

Be careful with Franz as to who actually did the PPI. Although its always Franz or Deiter taking to clients it may not have been them who actually looked at the car.

Having said all that if the bodywork is done right and the color is original it could be a nice car. Interior looks great in green.