Help pricing 78 911?

[PeterC911]

We all know that the market for these older 911's is all over the place. I was wondering if I could get some feedback to price this accordingly. I will try to be as complete as possible with all known issues. Overall, this is a strong drivers car. I never bought it with the intention of either a show car or DE car. This was just something for my wife and I to take out on the weekends, special occasions, etc.

Specs:

1978 Porsche 911 SC Euro
139,xxx miles

It does "puff" some smoke on cold start-up occasionally and it does drip some oil, however this is less than 1 quart per 1K miles. It was re-painted at some point in the past; it looks good, but there are some chips. I never have any problems starting it up, driving, or shifting. The windshield seal needs replaced. It is not horrible and I have only driven it in the rain once, but some water did get the front passenger floor mat a little wet. I did not see any other leaks and the targa top did not appear to leak. The radio and fog lights are not working, but that appears to be the only electrical issue. The stereo and speakers are aftermarket, but from mid-90's maybe? It is a nicer head unit and speakers.

The previous owner bought her and blew the engine at a DE event. The engine and transmission were rebuilt at that time. I have put maybe 10,000 miles on it since I purchased 4 years ago.

This has H4 headlights, turbo tie-rods, turbo lower valve covers, pop-off valve, and upgraded chain tensioner. Tail and front spoiler are fiberglass with original rubbers. It has aftermarket exhaust and it sounds really nice. The rims are original Fuchs, but have been polished and repainted.

Interior is pretty clean. Seats are from a early 90's 911. The dash has a little warp, but no cracks. The door pockets are gaping a little bit from the flip down cover.

I get compliments on her frequently and only list the downsides to help evaluate the price. I think she looks great in person and have no concerns for mechanical issues.

I posted this for sale a few times in the spring, but did not put a whole lot of effort into it. Just seeing what interest there was. I was thinking of asking $29,500.

I appreciate any feedback in advance!

[Rick Brooklyn]

Any rust? Do you have records for the rebuilds and other maintenance? Not sure if it should smoke with only 10k on a rebuild.

At a first glance I wouldn't pay $29.5k for a Targa with that description, but that's just my view.

[PeterC911]

No, I don't see any rust anywhere, nor do I have records of the rebuild. I had a full PPI done before I purchased and there were no concerns with it at that time. I was told that the smoke that I saw was normal and should not be concerned?

Well, I am trying to provide all the negative info that I can. I have been monitoring the classified here on Pelican and this seems to be roughly in line with many cars I see.

Rick, what do you think fair market value is then? I appreciate the response.

[NYNick]

Have a 78 coupe myself. I agree with Rich. Why does it smoke upon start up if it had a rebuild 10,000 miles ago? I would be wanting to see those rebuild documents, myself. And, it leaks slightly?

Looks like a nice car, otherwise. Once the engine issue is explored, I don't think your 'asking' is out of line.

[sm70911]

Unless its oil smoke a puff of smoke on start up is not necessarily something worry about. It could simply be condensation.
The fact its a euro is good, and IMO makes the car more attractive, the fact its been re built (depending by whom) also makes it more attractive. I would never buy a car with that mileage that hasn't been re built unless the lack of a re build was factored into the price.

This market is all about originality right now so you should think about that, if you have the original radio somewhere, swap it in and add some low key speaker covers. The big thing is the Targa Top. If that leaks that is something the next owner has to deal with, and I think the cost of someone like a Dan Petchel re build that should be factored in to the price.

From your pics I think your car presents well. I don't like the radio and speakers, the tail (I think its after market but if that's real it could be worth a few $) and the two out muffler but that said with all the plusses I don't think your price is way far off the mark. Sad to say but Ebay is probably your best bet for top dollar.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by PeterC911

Rick, what do you think fair market value is then? I appreciate the response.

Bear in mind that Targas trade at substantial discount to coupes. I like Targas but the buyer base is much smaller,.many people turn their nose at them.

In my humble opinion:
value of ROW is debatable. For the same hp I'd rather have a US car with SSI.

Lack of docs is a pretty big minus. 30k is top dollar for a targa, and for that price I expect to see a lot of receipts, particularly for the rebuild.

Rebuilds could be a big plus if done by a top shop with pristine reputation and documented. Rebuild by a random Joe Schmoe based on word of mouth would not be as much of a plus.

Smoke and oil drip I'll let someone more competent comment, but clearly not a selling point.

7/10 paint is average.

Non period correct, presumably heavier seats from a 964 is a minus.

Leaky/wet interior is a minus until fully sorted.

To me, based on above, if the paper trail is missing, if PPI checks out fully clean, that's an honest entry-level SC, I would take a second look if it where priced at 25k to 26k.

[bhmkv]

Nice car!! I think the price seems fair. Is it chiffon?

[whiterabbit]

ROW is a plus but non standard a negative. I would actually look at putting in the correct seats, radio and rear lid if you have time. I think its a 25k car right now. Get it back to stock and a specialist to confirm engine is ok and it may be 33k.

[PeterC911]

Well, I have her up for sale in the 911 Classifieds and on Craigslist. I have not been contacted by anyone serious yet. I am starting at 28K and see where it goes. I am willing to negotiate on the price, but I know I am being WAY more forth-coming with information than alot of the cars I see being sold. I could probably sell it for 33K if I don't say anything about it and sell it over-seas. But I have learned alot from fellow "pelican-ites" and that is not what I want to do. Thanks for your replies though!

[sm70911]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Bear in mind that Targas trade at substantial discount to coupes. I like Targas but the buyer base is much smaller,.many people turn their nose at them.

In my humble opinion:
value of ROW is debatable. For the same hp I'd rather have a US car with SSI.

Lack of docs is a pretty big minus. 30k is top dollar for a targa, and for that price I expect to see a lot of receipts, particularly for the rebuild.

Rebuilds could be a big plus if done by a top shop with pristine reputation and documented. Rebuild by a random Joe Schmoe based on word of mouth would not be as much of a plus.

Smoke and oil drip I'll let someone more competent comment, but clearly not a selling point.

7/10 paint is average.

Non period correct, presumably heavier seats from a 964 is a minus.

Leaky/wet interior is a minus until fully sorted.

To me, based on above, if the paper trail is missing, if PPI checks out fully clean, that's an honest entry-level SC, I would take a second look if it where priced at 25k to 26k.

"value of ROW is debatable. For the same hp I'd rather have a US car with SSI" There is more to the euro cars than adding "just SSI's". For example the headlamps alone on this car are far more desirable than the US sugar scoops.


`Whats a "random rebuild" and how do you determine who is a "Joe Schmoe"

[Rick Brooklyn]

I didn't say a "random rebuild". I said a rebuild by a random shop, by which I mean one that doesn't have much of a reputation or track record of working on porsche engines.

[sm70911]

How do you know what kind of a track record or reputation these 'random shops' have ?

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by sm70911

How do you know what kind of a track record or reputation these 'random shops' have ?

For example, if I search here and on rennlist and elsewhere and I find plenty of comments from people with thousand of posts who say a shop is great, and maybe that shop is PCA approved for their DE, I consider that great reputation.

If I search and I find only a few posts, from people who say something like "that guy botched my transmission" or the such, that equates to not great reputation in my book.

Makes sense?

[sm70911]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

For example, if I search here and on rennlist and elsewhere and I find plenty of comments from people with thousand of posts who say a shop is great, and maybe that shop is PCA approved for their DE, I consider that great reputation.

If I search and I find only a few posts, from people who say something like "that guy botched my transmission" or the such, that equates to not great reputation in my book.

Makes sense?

I know of so called reputable shops lauded here and especially on Rennlist who have got it wrong, very wrong actually. Its looking at the work sheet and talking to the builder, that counts for me.

[Milesaway]

Market is not great this time of year and things are not moving in Europe so lower 20's would move it. GLWTS

[PeterC911]

Well, I sold my 78 911 to a guy in Florida. Guess what showed up for sale a week later...

1978 Porsche 911 SC Targa EuroSpec

He even used my Craigslist photos for his sale. Should I get a commission???

[diy83sc]

and he'll probably pass through the sale without titling... as if the car is coming from you. Forgot what it's called but is usually illegal.

I guess everyone is entitled to make a few bucks. Shame that someone that was looking for a nice Targa didn't take the leap ... "What are they waiting for"...

[ficke]

Originally Posted by diy83sc

Shame that someone that was looking for a nice Targa didn't take the leap ... "What are they waiting for"...

This is always what comes to my mind.
The only thing I can think of from reading comments here and having sold a few cars is people care as much about the ad or maybe even more about the ad than they do about the car.
So dealers and flippers who make better ads will help these fence sitters buy these cars they want because they right better ads?
I really do not know why end users need flippers so much? puzzling but a fact.

[PeterC911]

Sure, I can see a "used car salesman" pushing the price up and not fully disclosing everything. All I can say is that I was totally honest and trying to give someone a good deal. I offered it to the Pelican's first, but didn't get a whole lot of interest. Flippers here and there, but no enthusiasts.

I am not a used car seller and wanted it to go to someone who would be happy with the purchase price and know what they were buying. Hurts my pocket a little, but not my peace of mind.

Plus, I am in the midwest. Probably deeper pockets in Tampa...

[Rick Brooklyn]

If it can be of consolation, there is no way in hell he'll get anywhere near that kind of money. That ad belongs in the Prices that make me laugh thread.