Help me figure an appropriate price for this car (part 2)
 

So I'm sure most of you saw my last thread that got a bit out of hand.

Same story, but a different car. Have had a good bit of communication with the owner so far. Has tons of records, but also a TON of aftermarket stuff. Had a topend rebuild about 35k miles ago along with a lot of good preventative maintenance done (all done by the owner though, not a shop). Has front/rear Ruf bumpers which I'm not sure how I feel about them; like the weight savings don't love the 964 look.

Any thoughts on the car. More importantly does $35k seem like a fair price or should all that aftermarket stuff not add quite that much? Obviously the 3.6L swap is worth something, but I would imagine that car without a swap would only get mid to high twenties at best given the mileage. Maybe not though, the maintenance has been pretty amazing.

Thanks and pray this one doesn't go to ****. ;)

1980 SC 3.6 Ruf-look Targa - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Well, I said it in the other thread, and I'll say it again. If you had a mind to build a car like this, you would not be able to even touch $35k. It would cost much more. It's a car that has been seriously personalized, and if you like 85% of what was done, and can live with the other 15%, I would jump on it. The car is going to be fast with that bigger motor, and will stand out any time you go to where Porsche folks are gathered. Downside: If and when it comes time to sell it, getting your money back might be hard. Because this car has been personalized, it's not going to be as easy as a 100% stock car to sell. Yeah, it's a Targa, and they generally go for less anyway. Have $27k cash money in hand, with another $8k in reserve. Show the $27k, but be prepared to spend all the way up to $35k. Be willing to consider the money completely spent, with no expectation of return on investment.

I would check closely at what shop completed all this work. While it looks to be well done and well thought out, it is a highly customized Targa that probably goes like a bat out of hell. Well worth the money, serious hot rod. If it was a coupe it would already be gone, but it's not.

I think $27K is a STEAL. Even a low $30 number is good. Just be prepared for all the 'non-original naysayers, of which I am not one. I just don't like Targas.

Looks like a fast/well maintained car. As stated above this vehicle would of been long gone if it was a coupe and everything checked out.

Hard to price modded/engine swap vehicles but if the owners work is high quality I think $30k - $35k if fair. Buy it and drive the hell out of it if that is your goal. Just remember have $2k or so around for yearly maintenance and fixes.

If you are looking for more of investment weekend driver buy a stock vehicle because it will be tough to get your money back on a vehicle like this.

That looks like an awesome car. Resale down the road would be much simpler than the cab conversion. There will always be a market for 3.6 swaps among hot rodders. Just be sure that it doesn't pose you any issues smogging it. Otherwise, that car is worth every cent of $35k but try to get it for around $32k.

Musante is a top notch shop. I wouldn't hesitate to use them on PPI even though the owner recommends them. Chris and his staff are straight shooters. Dan Jacobs would be a good option too. Both solid family owned businesses.

The plan right now is a Dan jacobs ppi. They're a decent chunk cheaper than musante.

Being the individual who originally built the car, my obviously biased opinion is that it is well worth the money. Pretty much everything done to that car during my ownership is documented somewhere on the internet so there really aren't any mysteries. The current owner has made some changes and improvements in the suspension and cosmetic departments but retained all of the original pieces.
If I could manage it, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the car back. Unfortunately, with the current exchange rate, it just doesn't make sense.
Just for fun, here is the ad from when I sold it back in 2005. Times have changed.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/226023-fs-3-6l-911sc-ruf-look.html

I didn't sell it to the current owner, the person who bought it from me back in '05 sold it to the current owner, who happens to be a good friend.

Todd

Looks like a great car, build history, and reasonable price. You want a hot rod 3.6 Targa and have $35k? This would be the one to get.

Check this 3.6 conversion out also. Another CT car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/886933-1984-carrera-coupe-sale.html

That rear wing is pretty terrible, but it could be a good car. He wants a Targa/cab, however.

I think you are over thinking this. You aren't buying a million dollar car here. Its a nice used car. If you are willing to pay $35-ish, so is the next guy. Why are you over analyzing this so much?

You will get the same replies you got in the other thread, as its the same type of car (nonstock)...

Would you beat yourself up this much if you were buying a used minivan?

Most of us have way more in our cars than they are worth... its not all about dollars and cents. Life is short. Just buy a car and go enjoy it... If overpaying by a couple grand causes you sleepless nights,go buy a new car (and the associated depreciation!). Remember, buying the car is just a part of the cost... you still have to fix and maintain it ($-$$$)

This is funny. So the seller is a member since 2006 and you're hoping or thinking he would just not happen to browse in this discussion and see the advice and figure out your tactics? If you like the car be upfront with him and throw out your best offer and reason why and go from there. He might just agree or he might counter.

What tactics is that exactly? Trying to decide how much a car is worth by asking relevant people? I wouldn't give a crap if the owner sees this thread. Sorry for doing what I feel is my due diligence when making a huge purchase. The cars over 10 years older than I am, I want to know as much as I can about it.

The only thing that makes the 2 cars similar is they're both not oem... If you look at the 2 threads the responses have already been completely different between the 2. Not a single negative thing about the targa, about 80% negative on the green convertible.

Appreciate the link that looks like a really interesting car. The wing is pretty awful though.
I'm definitely not set on only a vert or targa. In principle I'm more a coupe guy (function first) but I don't fit in them very well with stock seats (6'4" with a long ass torso)

You'll do OK in anything but an '85. For whatever reason, the seats sit up an inch higher.

The bottom line is really very simple. If you are concerned about resale, you should steer clear of modified cars. You HAVE to consider modified cars as personalized, and that makes the buyer pool much, much smaller. You can get a good, stock SC for $35k these days. A car that will, in all likelihood, retain some semblance of value. Hotrods? Who knows? That cab had way too many negatives for a starter Porsche. The Targa is your best bet.

Maybe think about this one:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/887076-1986-911-targa-f-s.html

85 had the seats changed but the rails were not lowered yet to accommodate them. 86 got them dropped. I hit my head in my old 85. I don't in my 86. 6'3" super tall torso.

To Eric's point, if you are super worried about resale do not buy a modified car. But guys have always modified these cars. Lots of them out there. Just as the values have climbed stock has become more desireable. You will always be able to sell a well modified car it just might take longer to find an arse for that seat.

No offense, but $35k is not a lot of money. If it is a lot of money to you then you might not be far enough up your earning curve yet to buy one of these as a toy car. But if 2 years from now the car costs 15% more and you make 15% more it may be more affordable. These cars are not going to disappear and no longer be for sale.

This is exactly right. If you don't have the income to both buy and care for these cars, they will become a millstone around your wallet. You can get a lot of car for cheap when you buy a hotrod, but the next guy will expect the same thing. :)

Yup, just buy the darn car and start putting money into it :)
If that doesn't sound fun, these cars are not for you.

When he's off his meds, SilberUrS6 can offer good advice too.

This is not directed at the OP, but I think a lot of people new to these cars are coming in and hoping to buy an appreciating "asset" that they can have fun with. Everyone wants to invest in a collector car right now. A stock car might be that. A hot rod is less likely to be that. One buys a hot rod for the long haul personal enjoyment. It has utility value versus financial value.

I completely agree with that (I guess this means the apocalypse is nigh?)

I was trying to focus on the details, and didn't go for the bigger picture.

Hmmm, you are under 25? I now see why you are so concerned with the price.

The cars are a little more different than just both modified. Even though I liked the convertible, it was a LOT more of a question mark. The mileage issue and the targa to vert conversion put it in no mans land for many people. This car on the other hand, has a big engine. (most of the other things listed in the ad are just maintenance items) Something that is surely a hot rod, and a mod that many people would do to their own cars given the chance, even if they pickle their original motor and put it under the bench for future "investment" purposes. The cabrio could never go back stock, this car could, albeit without a matching number engine.

Thinking about future value is great, but actually MAKING money on any car is a crapshoot. Just maintenance can be substantial. Another way to think of what it take to keep a 911 running, dollar wise, is to remember that this 911 was an approximately $30k new car. Given inflation, that is roughly equivalent to $87k now. It is not going to have $30k car maintenance, it is going to $87k car maintenance - plus 35 years wear and tear. Think about those numbers for a moment and try to explain how paying $30k for a 911 in 1980 vs investing most of the money and buying a used driver equates to "investing". The stock market has gone up over 20 fold since a 1980 SC was new, the car is worth 1/3rd what is sold for. It's clear that you should buy a car that you need and enjoy, not as an investment.

This car has a decent asking price, it will sell near it.

How goes the purchase ?

After all that about the running costs, if you are a decent wrench and have the time, you can save a lot on the maintenance by doing it yourself. With 30k to spend, I would budget some for repair. Perhaps, a 'decent' SC in the low twenties is a better choice. Find one, improve it and you might just be able to sell it for more in 2 years or you may just decide to keep it !

I guess that's why "decent" is in single quotes. It's hard to find a decent SC in the low twenties these days. Anything in the low twenties is either going to be one of those cars you hear about through the grapevine, or is going to have some challenges. A guy that can swing a wrench might be able to address a car that has some mechanical challenges...

Or high miles. I think the ones too many people dismiss are the 150-200k mi cars that have had a lot of service over the years. If the head studs are done and the 915 gone through thoroughly at least once that car, with faded paint and crushed seat bolsters, can give many more years of service at a $20k price of entry.

Faded paint and seats that need re-doing are a an $8k fix, at a minimum. High miles, but with all the appropriate receipts won't scare away a knowledgeable buyer, and may in fact attract those who want a good car without having to pay the collector-car premium. SCs are going to start getting into the area of "miles don't matter much". Well, not that they ever really did - those folks who know stuff have ALWAYS preached the three Cs: Condition, Condition, Condition.

$8k if you fix them. Get a $1k Sparco drivers seat and just drive the thing. Too many waxers buying these cars now.

Wax is for Ronnie's back hair.

*ball